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Coupes & Convertibles Nissan GT-R Article Comments - 2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo
990 messages, Last post on Sep 05, 2009 at 6:04 AM
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2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo - Balance and body control of the GT-R are extraordinary through faster, bumpy bends that will have the 911 unsettled enough to make the driver lose confidence. I had a number of heart-in-mouth moments in the Turbo trying to keep up with the GT-R, even with the Porsche's suspension set to its harder Sport setting. (more)
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Replying to: 240ka (Jan 18, 2008 11:29 am) My guess is that you are somewhere between old enough to drive, but not old enough to afford a 350Z, let alone a GT-R and will have to continue to get your "fix" reading reviews rather than driving any of these cars. Nothing wrong with that, by the way, we were all there once. If you check back to my previous posts, my preliminary concerns and criticism of the GT-R is based upon my actual experience with another Nissan product, the 350Z. Back when I was in the sports car market in late 2001, the 350Z posted very similar "numbers" to the Honda S2000 and Boxster S. But the driving dynamics, nimbleness, and subjective feel were down at least 3 nothces from the other two. Much of the blame could be attributed to an extra 400+ lbs in curb weight. I didn't buy a 2005 911S because I had to have the Porsche label in my garage. Back in 2001, I bought the Honda S2000 because I thought it was close enough to the Boxster S in performance and was a much better value. But in 2005 and still today, I don't think anyone offers a similar package against the 911. Will the GT-R change my mind? Who knows. But I can assure you that Nissan will have had to do a much much better job hiding the obesity than they unsuccessfully did with the 350Z. The 240Z that perhaps you refer to in your moniker was indeed a great sports car for its day. An affordable answer to the Jaguar E-type. And as a (still) proud owner of a 1995 Nissan Maxima SE, I continue to offer that was one of my best purchases ever. But the 350Z is a far, far cry from the spirit of the old 240Z. I am justifiably skeptical that the same Nissan engineers who refuse to understand the detriment of the 350Z's extra 400-500 pounds are claiming that a similar level of obesity in the GT-R doesn't matter because the "numbers" tell the whole story. No, damn it, they don't. You are right about one thing, most Porsche and any sports/supercar owners don't test the 99.6% level of the performance of their vehicles. Which is what a 2 second difference at Nurburgring works out to be. But if a sports car isn't nimble feeling round the curves and precise in its steering and handling at 50 mph, I don't want it period, no matter how many jack asses I can beat at a stop light using "launch control". If that was the measure of manliness, an old college buddy's couped up Buick SS would embarass the GT-R with a 10 second quarter mile (for a total cost of about $30k). I'll be interested to see how the GT-R feels in person once I get a test drive. My friendly Nissan dealer that sold me the Maxima has assured me, I'll be one of the first. I suggest you get yourself in line at a Nissan dealer and hold off on your conclusions until you do the same. Assuming I didn't overestimate your age.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 20, 2008 6:03 am) second the built quality of a 350Z or any other nissan wouldnt be something you could relate to the build quality of the GT-R. as i mention. just like porsche owners. the hype they hear based on an upcoming porsche is based totally off the reviews they read. so what makes it wrong to do it with the GT-R. so i ask again-is it b/c its not a porsche? in reference to the GT-R's weight. the weight is one of the main factors for its superb handling. if the reviews from top gear, edmunds, motor trend etc have been stating the GT-R handles better, is more stable and give the driver more confidence then you get in a 911 turbo. I guess they must be lying right? i mean who would have thought they would be more baised to the Nissan GT-R than the beloved 911 turbo which has over 40 years of reigning greatness. of course they would be baised to the 911 turbo on the strength of that alone but it shows that the GT-R is so great that they cant. GT-R wins Supercar of the year in top Gear and also includes R8 vs GT-R comparison http://www.tacticalcenter.net/GT-R/ full top gear article on the GT-R http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2007/12/stories/12/1.html and Top Gear cars of the year awards http://www.germancarzone.com/pit-general-discussion/21405-top-gear-car-year-awar- - - - - - - - - - - - - d-2007-a.html there goes Top gears reviews- i think the articles speak for itself like the GT-R does. yes the 240Z is a great car and one of my favs but my name 240KA refers to the 240sx and the KA24de motor that comes in it. "You are right about one thing, most Porsche and any sports/supercar owners don't test the 99.6% level of the performance of their vehicles. Which is what a 2 second difference at Nurburgring works out to be. But if a sports car isn't nimble feeling round the curves and precise in its steering and handling at 50 mph, I don't want it period, no matter how many jack asses I can beat at a stop light using "launch control". If that was the measure of manliness, an old college buddy's couped up Buick SS would embarass the GT-R with a 10 second quarter mile (for a total cost of about $30k). " i cant imagine a car would feel less stable cornering at 50mph and more stable cornering at 80-120mph. that just sounds like a twist rationale to try and dislike or have more disbelief in the GT-R. so theres no need in me responding to that. like yourself once the GT-R comes i will be test driving one to see if the car feels as great as the reviews say it do. but at the sametime. im surely not doubting or skeptical that they are lying about its achievements and fortes over the 911. fact is that based on reviews. they arent saying the GT-R is JUST alittle better than the 911. they are saying that its many steps ahead of the 911 and in a league of its own. im betting that cant be a fleuk as i said this is great for everyone. great for someone that cant justify paying 120k for a 911 turbo thats less car than a 70k Nissan GT-R all around. this will force chevy to go back to the drawing board. b/c more more more power isnt the answer. its also good for porsche owners b/c they will demand porsche deliver a car thats truly worth a 120k price tag if they dont come down in price. if the GT-R is beyond the 911 turbos ability at 70k and its competition the GT2. imagine what a 120k GT-R Evolution will deliver. it will be far beyond the ability of a GT2. and is panning out to be the competitor to the carrera GT. i know that if i was a porsche owner. and Nissan was producing alot more car for less money and with better all around quality. porsche is losing me as a customer. less face it-the extra 40k porsche owners were paying for a 911 was the fact that it was a porsche unless Nissan is losing 40k in each sell of a GT-R just to make the GT-R cheaper. which we know isnt happening. NIssan has managed to show us that a 911 turbo is easily over price and should actaully offer alittle more with a 70k price tag so this will force the top dog that made the best everday supercar for over 40 years to go back to the drawing board and actaully build a car with the riight purschasing price. and please believe. the guys who own porsches that have money will actaully purchase a GT-R to have in their garage. b/c its about having great cars. unlike the porsche fanboys who worked their asses off to be able to buy a porsche but can only own one at a time. so the fanboys are the ones mad at Nissan triumph and victory. not the car and porsche enthusiast who can afford expensive cars and dont care about the badge on their hood. but instead buy a car for its amazing ability no matter what badge it wears
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no i didnt say that, i dont have a son im only 26 and i said my boy owns the 996 and 997 911 turbos and a gallardo which is the one that inherited the 150mil when he turned 21 yeah i notice that some post of been removed. the post i was in with a guy that is comparing the z06 to the 911 and gt-r is gone. acutally the whole thread is gone
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Replying to: 240ka (Jan 20, 2008 12:38 pm) ......... -moo
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Replying to: madmanmoo (Jan 20, 2008 12:54 pm) My homie, compadre, friend |
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Replying to: 240ka (Jan 20, 2008 12:12 pm) The attributes I was referring to were "nimbleness" and "precision". Let's start with a test. Drive a Honda S2000, 350Z and Porsche Boxster back to bask. If you can't tell which one weighs 450 lbs more than the other two and think that the 350Z is just as tight, nimble and precise as the other two, we can indeed end this discussion now. Or, if you want to save time, drive your G35 back to back with a 335i. If you think the G35 is as refined and precise in it's handling and driving dynamics, we can again end the discussion. That's not to say the G35 isn't a decent car and a decent value. But if driving dynamics are your highest priority, the BMW is clearly superior. I think you are also guilty of getting more than a bit carried away in embelishing the facts. The GT-R has supposedly run a 2 second faster Nurburgring time than the 911 Turbo. The GT3 is faster than the Turbo. The GT2 is 9 seconds faster than the Turbo and 7 seconds faster than the GT-R. Again, though, none of this matters much to me. Nor would I go out and buy a SL65 to boast that I had 600+ horsepower and 738 ft-lbs of torque. That car can absolutely obliterate any of the ones we are talking about in a 50 to 150 acceleration test. Which is nice to know, but does not a sports car make. in reference to the GT-R's weight. the weight is one of the main factors for its superb handling. I'm not sure what physics course you took, if any, but weight (mass) is an enemy to changing directions quickly. I didn't make that up - Newton made that a "law". Sure, you can slap bigger tires on a car and stiffen up the suspension, but I would still prefer to see the engineers do a better of a job keeping it down in the first place. I sure as hell hope you aren't suggesting that a 3,400 lb GT-R would not perform even better than a 3,900 lb one? I have never heard a single explanation as to why a "sports car" needs to weigh 900 lbs more than my 1995 Maxima. And, for the last time, this is the company that promised us a reincarnation of the spirit of the 240Z with the 350Z and then actually gave us a bloated pig compared to the S2000.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 20, 2008 2:15 pm) i know that a G35 first shouldnt be compared to a 335i, the G35 comparision goes with the 330 but not a 335i. the G35 and 335 if offer to differnet things. the G35 gives you more a a raw sports car feel than that off a 335i. which is why the 335i feels better and is more refined and poitn blank the G35 isnt on the 335i's level like the G35 isnt on the G37's level if i wanted to make a comparison to the 335i it would have been the G37. no where in my arguement did i say a stock GT-R of 3800lbs would handle better than a GT-R thats had a weight reduction of about 400lbs bringing it to 3400lbs. nor would i say that. so again. dont get things out of my arugment im not saying. you are trying to argue a point thats has nothing to do with anything. your 3800lbs GT-R vs 3400lbs GT-R comparision has nothing to do with why the GT-R out handles the 911 turbo. the 3494lbs 911 turbo doesnt handle like 3800lbs GT-R and it most definitely wouldnt handle like a 3400lbs GT-R so that comparision is utterly pointless but on the other hand. this is not about a 3800lbs GT-R vs a 3400lbs GT-R so thats not even the same arguement. things defy physics quite a bit. and the GT-R is a testament to that. b/c a 3800lbs GT-R outhandles a 3494lbs 911 turbo. because of the way the GT-R is built. and like i said, if you believe these reviews are lying and favoring the Nissan GT-R over the beloved 911 turbo which people have been baised to for over 40 years and for good reason then somethings wrong with you. the fact is is that people are shocked and upset that NIssan has been able to knock the 911 off its throne so early when people thought either it would never happen or not this soon. thats your problem you are still in denial abou that. but its a new day. things change and you have to be willing to accept that. change is good. and lik ei said. if the 911 turbo is going to remain 120k then porsche is going to have redo it in order to justify its price. b/c the GT-R has shown that better than 911 performance and quality should only cost 70k the G37 rivals the 335i and the GT-R kills the 911 turbo so the fact that yall keep wanting to harp on the weight is the very reason why you need to drop it. b/c Nissan has built the GT-R in a way that 3800lbs GT-R out handles a 3494lbs 911. review after review says it. so they must have all gotten together, and conspired to dethrone porsche right? you act like theres some type of conspiracy going on. the fact is that the GT-R is much better than the 911turbo. well actaully what nissan as manage to do is show that while the 911 turbo is a great car its not that great and again comprehend what you read. 240KA refer to the 240sx and the KA24de motor that comes with it. not the 240Z. so im not talking about the 240Z and while the 350z is bloated it still out performs the S2k and boxster even though i dont give a damn about either of the three. if i cared about the 350z i would have gotten it over the G35. but they both offer something different. the 350z has better performance and handling over the G35 but the G looks better, looks sportier and is practical. and with a few upgrade 350z perfamance isnt far from the G35's grasp. but again this isnt about the G35, 350z, 240z or BMW's. this is about the GT-R vs the 911 so anything outside of that i dnt care to talk about
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Replying to: 240ka (Jan 20, 2008 2:38 pm) For someone who admits to compromising performance by buying a G35 over a 350Z based upon "looks", your excessive enthusiasm for 2 second quicker Nurburgring time for the GT-R is especially hypocritic. I doubt you (or I for that matter) could drive anything around Nurburgring and get within a half minute of either time. And if looks are important to you, then I would have thought the GT-R's Mattel Toy inspired exterior and Game Boy inspired plastic interior would be more than enough to keep you at bay. At least with the NSX, Acura engineers understood that you not only need to compete in performance, but also in style. The NSX looks like it belongs in the same garage as a 911 and 430. The GT-R looks like it would be more at home with a Trans Am and Mustang GT or maybe a Viper on a good day. This sounds like I'm being more negative on the GT-R than I intend. Nobody I know personally has driven it yet. Notwithstanding my concerns over a 3,900 lb curb weight, I will give the GT-R a fair shake when it comes to a test drive. In the meantime, perhaps you should add a little more variety to your bathroom periodical rack.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 21, 2008 2:45 am) the the 350z and G35 are for different purposes. so again i wont entertain that. that 911 turbo being beat by 2 secs is a big margin. i dont know what world you live in. and you are starting to sound like a porsche fanboy. b/c you seem to be in denial also fact of the matter is that a 3800lbs outperforms a 3500lbs 911 turbo and not by a small margin either. no matter what excuse you come with doesnt change the fact that Nissan made the better car. and the reviews arent only talking numbers. just give it up. your precious little 911 turbo has been exposed not to be that great and should not wear a 120k price tag. point blank, now go cry about it. The GT-R is the new KING
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