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Coupes & Convertibles Nissan GT-R Article Comments - 2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo
990 messages, Last post on Sep 05, 2009 at 6:04 AM
You are in the Nissan GT-R Forum. Your Host is claires
2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo - Balance and body control of the GT-R are extraordinary through faster, bumpy bends that will have the 911 unsettled enough to make the driver lose confidence. I had a number of heart-in-mouth moments in the Turbo trying to keep up with the GT-R, even with the Porsche's suspension set to its harder Sport setting. (more)
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Replying to: skarie (Oct 11, 2008 8:32 am) Maybe a 7.6 liter 960HP V12 turbo 4 engine. Put me down for $100 on the other side of that bet. The GTR will contribute absolutely nothing of significance to Nissan's bottom line. And if they end up in class action lawsuits over the "launch control" mess and transmission failures, as the link above suggests, it will be a net negative. Honda/Acura have ten times the Formula 1 experience and focus as Nissan/Infiniti and yet, after the NSX was intorduced, it was tweaked once or twice and left to whither on the vine. Now the purported comeback is more about capitalizing on nastalgia than about continuing a consistent effort. Even my beloved Honda S2000, which was, IMO, more relatively impressive when it was introduced than the GTR is today, has all but dissapeared from Honda lots. You either make high performance cars a priority as a company, or you don't. The GTR may be a great one hit wonder, but I don't think it's going to get a fraction of the consistent management attention, engineering effort and ongoing development dollars that Porsche has put into the 911 year in and year out over the past 40 years. The 911 is the backbone of Porsche. Altimas and Sentras are the backbone of Nissan. And there isn't any amount of halo effect from a GTR that can convince anyone that a CVT tranmsioned Maxima is a "4 door sports car" or that a bloated 3,600 lb 350Z roadster is remotely close to a 2,800 lb Boxster or S2000. So as good as the GTR is, what the hell are the rest of the Nissan engineers doing? Even the reports in the owners club forum of how Nissan is responding (or, rather, not responding) to early purchasers of the GTR that are having transmision issues leads me to believe that the end is a hell of a lot nearer than 20 years. Especially if current economic conditions persist for another 2-3 years as has been predicted. So who's going to hold our $100 bills until 2028??
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Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 11, 2008 11:34 am) The last time i checked Renaut was the one that owned Nissan, so like it or not but Renault/Nissan won the world championship in 2005, when was the last time Honda won a race. Maybe Honda should stick to building what they know best Accords and Civics. As for for Acura, have you seen the new TL,it appears somewon left an ironingboard on the front of the grill,it now competes with the CTS as the ugliest cars in there class. You say the 350Z 3,600 lbs well the new Acua TL with SH-AWD comes in at 4000 lbs, it is also faster than the 335 and the G35 around the track. href="http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/honda_acura_central/2010_acura_tl_sh_awd_manual_first_drive_review" or that a bloated 3,600 lb 350Z roadster is remotely close to a 2,800 lb Boxster or S2000Now the S2000 maybe a very good car but it also gets beaten around the track by the 350Z(see video)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHTfCbDK-Mk Well the way the economy is going we may need to put four more zeroes on that $100 so that it may be worth something in 2028, but one thing is for sure, In 2028 there will be a new and exciting GTR while Porsche on the other hand may be stuck with the same design for the last 60 years. Thats proable why they bought VW/AUDI/LAMBO, they will need to sell thousands R8s to make a profit.
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Replying to: skarie (Oct 11, 2008 5:50 pm) Well skarie-san, my video is better than yours - and in mine the S2000 is ahead of the 350Z the entire time: S2000 vs. 350Z vs. M3 vs. M5 In 2028 there will be a new and exciting GTR while Porsche on the other hand may be stuck with the same design for the last 60 years. Thats proable why they bought VW/AUDI/LAMBO, they will need to sell thousands R8s to make a profit. You seem to be high on Nissan Kool Aid and low on business savvy. Nissan has had its share of adventures with bankruptcy. Hence, why they are now owned by that pillar of reliability, Renault. Dare I age myself to say I remember the "Le Car" - as though they had to actually tell you what it was? Porsche, on the other hand, is the most profitable car company in the world - hence why they can afford to buy stock in those other companies. The bottom line here isn't whether the TL is fugly or why a 350Z "roadster" weighs 600 lbs more than my old Maxima. We can put on the gloves and go 15 rounds on those issues in some other forum. The real issue is whether or not Nissan will have the management attention and ongoing development dollars to keep pumping into the GTR so that it stays competitive for the next 20 years. I look at 1,500 sales and already reports of potential customer lawsuits and think, probably not. I've been an executive at a few major corporations and my experience is that "projects" that don't contribute to the bottom line don't usually last past the "let's see if we can do it" stage. One of those companies, who's founders name is still on the company logo, had a simple metricfor new business development: if it can't be a $1 billion business in 3-5 years, we don't want to divert management attention and resources to it. Honestly, the only way I see the GTR surviving is if Nissan executives decide that having a supercar is so important to its overall image and marketing effort to warrant making it a "loss leader". But in that case, they better damn well give all of those owners that used "launch control" to try to replicate the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that Nissan has been plastering all over the media as "faster than a Porsche Turbo" a brand new and improved beefier transmission. Free. With a set of golf clubs and round at Pebble Beach for their hassles. Otherwise, the GTR isn't going to be a "halo", it's going to be an embarassment.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 12, 2008 3:07 pm) This still does not prove anything. It all depends on the driver, if it was only the S2000 and the 350Z in that race that might would have changed the out come. The bottom line here isn't whether the TL is fugly or why a 350Z "roadster" weighs 600 lbs more than my old Maxima Well my point was that the TL weighs 4000 lbs and still is faster around the track than a BMW 335(3500 lbs) and G35(3500 lbs), and the GTR weighs more than 300 lbs more than the 911T and is also faster around any track.Too much weight is never a good thing, but if the proper AWD set up is appld then its not a problem. Another example BMW 135(3400lbs) vs Misu Evo X(3600 lbs) the Evo is faster around the track. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_bmw_135_mitsubishi_evo_mr_co- - mparison/specifications.html The new soon to be released 2010 370Z will lose anywhere between 200-300 lbs. http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=6753 While the S2000 now called S3000 will definatly gain as much as 300 lbs it will also now have a V6. http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/10/13/next-generation-honda-s2000-may-get-v6-clos- - e-to-300-hp/ Porsche, on the other hand, is the most profitable car company in the world Thats due to sales of the Cayenne, thats also the reason why Porsche is building a 4dr car Panamera. $$$! Pretty soon and Porsche will be building a car that competes with the 3 series. The real issue is whether or not Nissan will have the management attention and ongoing development dollars to keep pumping into the GTR so that it stays competitive for the next 20 years. I look at 1,500 sales and already reports of potential customer lawsuits and think, probably not. I've been an executive at a few major corporations and my experience is that "projects" that don't contribute to the bottom line don't usually last past the "let's see if we can do it" stage. One of those companies, who's founders name is still on the company logo, had a simple metricfor new business development: if it can't be a $1 billion business in 3-5 years, we don't want to divert management attention and resources to it. That will not be a problem as Nissan is already working on a INFINITI version of the GTR which is rumored to have 4 doors. Honestly, the only way I see the GTR surviving is if Nissan executives decide that having a supercar is so important to its overall image and marketing effort to warrant making it a "loss leader". But in that case, they better damn well give all of those owners that used "launch control" to try to replicate the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that Nissan has been plastering all over the media as "faster than a Porsche Turbo" a brand new and improved beefier transmission. Free. With a set of golf clubs and round at Pebble Beach for their hassles. Otherwise, the GTR isn't going to be a "halo", it's going to be an embarassment. Almost every new cars that are made have a few bugs to be worked out, this Nissan is no exception. Give it time it will work. Now is the GTR a better car than the 911T, maybe not but its sure worth half the price. Is the 135i better than the Evo, I'll let you answer that one. Is the 2009 Acura TL better than the 335i or the G35 soon to be G37 sedan, HELL NO! The G35 may also not be better than the 335i, but that is not the reason i bought it, it was the price. And to be honest with you i would'nt even buy any of these two cars if i had the money, i prefer the CLK AMG Black Series or the Porsche 911 GT3. More fun to drive.
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Replying to: skarie (Oct 13, 2008 2:16 pm) I'd give them slack for a "bug" or two. But a transmission that breaks and an instruction to owners NOT to use the "Launch Control" feature or you will invalidate your warranty?? That's not a "bug", that's a major mechanical engineering meltdown. I've always though "launch control" was a hoakie gimmick to satisfy stop light drag racing boys. But when you take that away from the GT-R, the acceleration goes from super car to merely above average. Forget the 911 Turbo, GT2, GT3 or even the new 911S, the GT-R will be neck and neck with a 2009 base 911 coupe with sport-chrono, which costs about the same as the GT-R. I only know what I've read in the GT-R owners forum form the link above. So hopefully, for Nissan's sake, the problem isn't as serious as it sounds and/or will be addressed directly and professionally by Nissan. And to be honest with you i would'nt even buy any of these two cars if i had the money, i prefer the CLK AMG Black Series or the Porsche 911 GT3. More fun to drive. Two damn good choices, but IMO you can't really compare them in the "fun to drive" department. The CLK63 has gobs of torque, but a slushbox automatic that appears to be the only transmission those testosterone laden AMG engineers can manage on any of their offerings. I have driven several AMG models and, after you mash your foot to the floor a few times, you've had about as much "fun" as they offer. They make some enormously fast cars, just nothing I would call a satisfying sports car. The GT3, on the other hand, is serious "fun". Light, tight, 8,400 rpm redline, and a proper 6-speed manual as the ONLY transmission choice. If you can't have fun in a GT3, you probably don't have a pulse. By the way, my issue with excess weight isn't that you can't engineer around it to make a heavy car perform very well at extreme limits, especially with AWD. Nissan has done that. Acura has done that. Even Audi and Porsche (911TT) have done that. My issue is that the excess weight dulls the nimbleness of the car at subsonic speeds and in quick transitions. That was my biggest gripe with the 350Z vs. S2000 when I test drove them. I didn't take them to Nurburgring, I took them through Rock Creek Park in DC. And the S2000 was considerably more fun to drive in that setting. Again, personal preference. . |
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Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 12, 2008 3:07 pm) As for buyers it all boils down to a matter of taste. With the money I would not buy a Corvette or Viper simply because they are not what I find particularly appealing (Okay the sounds they make are appealing, but so is a pissed off twin turbo six) .........Sadly there is always going to be some person out there that will seem to find issue with my idea of taste a find cause to knock it by measuring it against what he knows and is familiar/comfortable with OH OH OH!!!! I FORGOT! BMW smg transmission has a launch control button and 6 different settings for it as I recall........using the highest setting will void warranty....this is like 5 year old hearsay tho. Also about the Infitity 4door GT-R........been there done that I think its called the BNR-34.........they made a drifter out of one, other than that the toyota soarer (Lexus GS350) was alot more popular being the fakey benz that it is.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Oct 10, 2008 12:17 pm) |
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Replying to: skarie (Oct 10, 2008 1:15 pm) |
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Replying to: skarie (Oct 11, 2008 5:50 pm) |
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Replying to: nobodyspecial (Oct 14, 2008 8:45 pm) I'm no English major - math was my better subject. But if my 4th grade daughter wrote a paragraph like the first one in your post, I'd immediately be calling for a conference with her teachers to see what we could do in the way of remedial classes. I don't understand what bottom line conclusion you were trying to make, other than "sounding off" in a highly discombobulated manner. You may want to try reposting with some semblence of grammer and basic sentence logic. And, by the way "Infiniti" is the car. "Infinity" is where I have to travel back and forth from to try to make sense of your ramblings. It appears that you have a strong opinion about something, which I'd be happy to consider and/or respond to if had a better idea of what it was. Thanks. |
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