Article Comments - 2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo

990 messages, Last post on Sep 05, 2009 at 6:04 AM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan GT-R, Porsche 911, Car Comparisons, Coupe

2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo - Balance and body control of the GT-R are extraordinary through faster, bumpy bends that will have the 911 unsettled enough to make the driver lose confidence. I had a number of heart-in-mouth moments in the Turbo trying to keep up with the GT-R, even with the Porsche's suspension set to its harder Sport setting. (more)

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#664 of 990 Re: Not Applicable [bigmclargehuge] by spiritinthesky Apr 04, 2008 (5:59 am)
Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Apr 04, 2008 4:22 am) You aren't commenting on statistics, you appear wed to them, conveniently modified with subjective opinion and no experience. I happen to be an engineer as well - and own an engineering consulting company with about 70 professionals on staff. About two thirds of which have post graduate degrees. So "statistics" is not my weak subject. I just have a healthy respect for what the car rags don't measure in their limited 0-60, 1/4 mile and lateral g tests. Take for example your crediting AMG with the best suspensions in the world? Is that something else you read? AMG and BMW's Motorsport are clients of my company and I personally visit their R&D facilities at least 1-2 times a year. While AMG has exceptional in house engineering capabilities, they have been focusing (too) much of that talent in the last decade into putting 500hp engines into everything from the SL to their minivan R class. Their production suspensions are barely up to BMW base standards, let alone the M cars. And that's O.K. - they don't cater to the true driving enthusiast. A S65, CL65 or SL65 w/ 700+ ft.lbs of torque, no problem. Manual transmission in any AMG product - nowhere to be found. AMG doesn't make a sports car, period. You appear to be striving for appointment as the statistically objective voice in this forum. I've limited my comments to about 4 posts, including this one. So have at it, if you wish. But understand that not everyone that reads your posts is incapable of performing their own statistical analysis. And in spite of your purely academic orientation, real driving experience in the world of sports cars isn't a bad thing.
#665 of 990 Re: Not Applicable [lemmer] by bigmclargehuge Apr 04, 2008 (6:01 am)
Replying to: lemmer (Apr 04, 2008 5:31 am) Well, my idea would really be just borrow the GT2's engine. I would hope the engine life would be the same, or that is indeed bad for the marque's reputation. That might be all it would take to put the 911T neck-and-neck to the GT2. The traction added by the AWD system could compensate for its own weight increase. However, I have the Carrera 4's weight at 3157lbs. And the Carrera 2's weight at 3075lbs. Thats only an 82lb difference for the AWD system. So it may be (theory) possible that using the GT2 as a starting point, Porsche could add AWD at less than 100lbs weight penalty for a GT4. AWD traction can compensate for significantly more weight than 100 lbs. So I predict it would actually be faster on a track than a GT2. I'm not sure why I got chastized for theorizing this. With the 959, there was nothing comparable for nearly a decade. It could be done again with many technological improvements. Replies to this message: habitat1 (Apr 04, 2008 1:31 pm) bigmclargehuge (Apr 04, 2008 2:05 pm)
#667 of 990 Re: Dyno Testing of GT-R [claires] by bigmclargehuge Apr 04, 2008 (7:27 am)
Replying to: claires (Apr 03, 2008 8:09 pm) Let's say we dyno test a normally aspirated car like a Corvette at sea level. Then we dyno the same Corvette in Denver, where the ambient pressure is roughly 20% lower. Measured power will be roughly 20%, too, because the normally aspirated engine is at the mercy of the elements (literally). It has no means to compensate for the loss in ambient pressure, and its power at altitude drops accordingly. So to get a sea level-equivalent result on a Denver dyno, we "correct" its Denver performance by multiplying by 1.2. Now we do the same tests on a turbocharged engine. The trick with the turbo engine is that it will simply increase the boost pressure to compensate for the reduced ambient pressure. Modern turbo engines have controls that allow them to run the same absolute pressure in the intake manifold, irrespective of the ambient pressure. This is not necessarily true for all turbocharged engines, but it is for the more advanced ones. The Z06 might get 505hp under ideal conditions, but when the conditions are not ideal, it does not have the ability to 'blow' more air. So the convention is to add a correction factor. The 911T and GT-R, might get exactly 480hp over a broader range of temperatures and pressures. So adding that correction factor is not only unnecessary, it is incorrect. I would have thought MT would have mentioned that. Edmunds might be more on-the-ball on this one.
#668 of 990 Re: Not Applicable [bigmclargehuge] by habitat1 Apr 04, 2008 (1:31 pm)
Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Apr 04, 2008 6:01 am) AWD traction can compensate for significantly more weight than 100 lbs. So I predict it would actually be faster on a track than a GT2. I'm not sure why I got chastized for theorizing this. Seems to me that you are the one chastizing others for expressing opinions based upon actual experience, while you are content to fill this forum with academic theories. I'm not sure if you are afraid that by test driving the cars you are speculating on that you might lose your objectivity, but if you get bold enough to try, test the C2S against a C4S and let us know if you think your theory holds up. Fact is, at the limits, AWD may offer some additional traction benefit. But it doesn't just add 100 lbs to the curb weight, it results in higher drivetrain loss of power and, at least in the case of the 911, has an unquantifiable impact on steering feel. Now please don't chastize me for expressing my opinion about an unquantifiable attribute. I did the same thing when I picked my spouse and it's worked out pretty darn well. Replies to this message: bigmclargehuge (Apr 04, 2008 2:05 pm)
#669 of 990 Re: Not Applicable [habitat1] by bigmclargehuge Apr 04, 2008 (2:05 pm)
Replying to: habitat1 (Apr 04, 2008 1:31 pm) The vultrues are circling. Thats fine that you like the 2wd version better. I never chastized anyone for doing so. I just suggested Porsche could make a better turbocharged 4wd version than the current 911T. And then had to defend my position for some odd reason. I'm happy for you and your spouse? I hope its not every day that you compare them to a car. Fact is, at the limits, AWD may offer some additional traction benefit. But it doesn't just add 100 lbs to the curb weight, it results in higher drivetrain loss of power That doesn't seem to be enough to slow down a 3800lb AWD beast like the GT-R.
#670 of 990 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo [chrmdom by epik15 Apr 04, 2008 (3:13 pm)
Replying to: chrmdome (Dec 26, 2007 1:57 pm) Who knows whether the GTR will be here 44 years from now but you can say the same thing about the 911. Unless you are trying to say that the 911 has already proven itself by lasting as long as it has? Which is pretty impressive since the first production year for a 911 was 1964. But then again you'd have to also consider that the first production year for a Nissan Skyline was 1957. Of course this new GT-R isn't exactly a skyline but a performance vehicle designed from the ground up for the future with a nod to the skyline heritage. As a 21 year old, I have to say that absolutely no one I know holds Porsche up on a pedestal and since the specs and images of the GTR have been out, zero would go with a Porsche over it. I think there's a huge discrepancy between us and the 40-50 year olds who speak so spiritually about the "porsche experience". Yes I've driven a few and they're ok, but they're just cars. And the GTR seems to do it better. I cringe whenever I hear some old guy say, "well it's still a nissan" as if that's a bad thing. The GTR has achieved a legendary cult status that Porsche can't even imagine. I think big is right, times have changed and I can't see Porsche managing to keep it's sales level as the internet generation comes of age. Actually, the smartest people I know wouldn't get either and would say there's little value in purchasing an expensive car. You can try them out at tracks and experience all the thrills but what's the value of actually purchasing one. All you need from a car really is the point a to b, decent enough looks and luxury, safety, and reliability. Let's face it, if you've got a car that costs more than 30k, it's excess. Replies to this message: chrmdome (Apr 08, 2008 7:51 am) bigmclargehuge (Apr 08, 2008 8:21 am)
#671 of 990 Chastise by madmanmoo Apr 04, 2008 (3:58 pm)
Chastise. Chastise. Chastise. Chastise. Chastise. Please..... Spell correctly everyone. It adds credibility to the argument that you're arguing with intelligence. -moo
#672 of 990 This concludes by claires HOST Apr 04, 2008 (10:02 pm)
the spelling lesson and and personal digs portion of our program. We can now resume our discussion of the 911 Turbo and Nissan GT-R.
#673 of 990 Porsche needs to try harder by jim39t Apr 06, 2008 (7:12 am)
Anyone else read the May 2008 Road & Track cover story (“Outrageous! Nissan’s GT-R SPANKS Porsche 911 Turbo and Corvette Z06”)? The testers thought that the 2wd of the Corvette was insufficient for the power (like trying to control a wild beast on a leash), and that the Porsche Turbo’s rear end could get unglued suddenly and make for a wild ride. GT-R wasn’t plagued by either problem, and soundly “spanks!” the other two at the track, with rather huge lap time wins. All reviewers raved about the GT-R on the track. What surprised me most was Porsche still has the problem of the skittish rear end. I thought they were supposed to have solved that years ago, but I guess not. If I were a Porsche engineer reading these reviews of the GT-R, I’d be a little embarrassed and would want to view the GT-R as a challenge to improve the 911’s handling. Replies to this message: bigmclargehuge (Apr 13, 2008 4:34 am)