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Coupes & Convertibles Nissan GT-R Article Comments - 2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo
990 messages, Last post on Sep 05, 2009 at 6:04 AM
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2009 Nissan GT-R vs. 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo - Balance and body control of the GT-R are extraordinary through faster, bumpy bends that will have the 911 unsettled enough to make the driver lose confidence. I had a number of heart-in-mouth moments in the Turbo trying to keep up with the GT-R, even with the Porsche's suspension set to its harder Sport setting. (more)
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Replying to: habitat1 (Apr 03, 2008 4:35 am) However, I'm afraid I don't see the relevance of the rest of your post with respect to this conversation about the GT-R. Are we judging the quality of the car on the market today or the intentions of Nissan's executives 10 years from now? Whether or not the GT-R will still be a great car 50 years from now is not remotely salient to its comparison to the 911. The question is, is the GT-R as good, or better, than the 911 right now? Or, to put it another way, if you were in the market today which would you buy? I don't think anyone really believes that the GT-R, as compelling a car as it is, will drive Porsche out of business. Furthermore, judging the talent of an artist based on longevity is not an indication of talent but rather stamina or passion. By your standards Don Sutton would be considered a better pitcher than Sandy Koufax because he pitched for 23 years vs 12. Would any rational person make that argument though? Is John Williams a better composer than Mozart? He's been composing for a much longer time than Mozart did. Talent/quality is one measure, while sustained passion/stamina is a different measure. Its like comparing a flashlight that will last for 10 years but at 1/5 the intensity of one that will last for one year. If you are buying one to take on a camping trip your choice would be different than if you were buying one to keep in your kitchen in case the power goes out.
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Replying to: docrw (Apr 03, 2008 11:52 am) The general managers were given a choice. They could have either of two pitchers, and they could make their selection knowing what the pitchers would do in their careers. One pitcher would pitch for 12 years, having a poor-to-mediocre first six years, then a spectacularly good last six years. The other would pitch for 23 years and win 324 games. The general managers were asked to choose either Sandy Koufax or Don Sutton. Eight selected Koufax, six chose Sutton and two said they could not decide. My experience is that it is difficult to get people to agree on anything.
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Replying to: lemmer (Apr 03, 2008 12:08 pm) Now there are lazy people out there, and I'm not talking about them. There are stupid people out there, and I'm not talking about them either. But there are some that were never able to get out from under a glass cieling. Or college debt because their parents didn't help them through school, or they broke a leg and couldn't keep the baseball scholarship. Or they just didn't 'know a guy'. No, I believe there are an equal number of modest-income individuals who are every bit as talented and hardworking as the higher-income individuals, sans the luck. And once they get to a certain age without hitting that magic threshold, they have to reprioritize and can't take the risks that we can. This based on my own observations of the hundreds of people I know of various ages, jobs, family backgrounds. This is not based on the media. The media wants you to think that some people deserve something without having a work ethic or talent. I don't agree with that either. Also, nobody actually thinks the GT-R can force Porsche out of business. But Porsche and Ferrari are, and always were, fairweather marques. When Porsche was at its worst, that was the time in which the economy brands took off. Conversely, Nissan reported some of its worst years when Porsche was rebounding.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Apr 03, 2008 1:27 pm) OK, maybe I went more than a little off-topic when I threw in the baseball article, but really, is there any way we can keep out the bleeding heart, little orphan Annie personal stuff? It makes me uncomfortable.
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Replying to: lemmer (Apr 03, 2008 1:50 pm) I don't prefer either car. But its fun to comment on the track performance. If they stuck a clutch-based AWD on the GT2, you bet your hind quarters I'd be in the other corner, cheering Porsche.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Apr 03, 2008 2:02 pm) Please, if that's what you think, stick with cheering for Nissan. I'm less than 3 weeks away from receiving my RWD GT2 and handing in the keys of my 911 Turbo. Specifically because it is RWD, weighs considerably less and will give me the quick, nimble, precise handling that I prefer. And notwithstanding it's lack of training wheels, it is considerably quicker around the "Ring" than the GTR vs.the slight advantage the GTR has over the 911TT. When you look at the cars in the GT-R's weight class, they consist of the M6, Aston Martin, SL63, and other cars that fall more into the GT class. Nissan's performance numbers look impressive on paper and some would claim it doesn't feel like a 2-ton car, but I find that hard to believe. Please leave the GT2 alone. Not all of us need or want training wheels and the weight and other unwanted side effects that go along with them.
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Replying to: spiritinthesky (Apr 03, 2008 5:08 pm) Weighs exactly the same as the current GT2, with AWD. And looks better too, IMHO. They can keep the GT2, I meant this is what the Porsche turbo should have been. Lightweight and more powerful. It could keep pace with the current 911T, with a manual no less! And that was 20 years ago! Also, there are some very impressive 2-ton cars out there. The GT-R does not stand alone. Mercedes SL 63 AMG Black Series lapped the 'Ring in 7:36. Only 5 seconds behind the fastest GT2 time, with far fewer laps under its belt. The superiority of the GT2 around the 'Ring has more to do with its 530hp than its 'lack of training wheels.' Add 50hp to the 911T and they would be neck-and-neck. Bring the weight of the 911T down to 959 level and I'd estimate it to be a bit faster. Hardly disadvantageous. Porsche has the tooling to create a vastly superior car than the current 911T. I just wish they'd gotten on that horse years ago. Everything else is your personal opinon.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Apr 01, 2008 12:47 pm) |
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Replying to: spiritinthesky (Apr 03, 2008 5:08 pm) |
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