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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Prius Help me understand the value of the hybrid.
38 messages, Last post on Sep 11, 2008 at 7:55 PM
You are in the Toyota Prius Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: carbot (Mar 20, 2008 8:25 pm) By the way I just did a 2,000 mile trip on my Prius and averaged 43 MPG at 75 MPH, full loaded with three adults plus gear. The car felt solid and confident in heavy downpours, but traction is marginal on wet unsurfaced pavement. |
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Replying to: pathstar1 (Dec 26, 2007 1:36 pm) Most INDUSTRY estimates (it is still too early to have enough real data, altho I have started seeing some) are that most hybrid batteries will last ON AVERAGE 150k miles. Meaning some will last longer, some won't make it that far. Toyota warrants theirs to 100k. That's less than 3 years for me. And there's a Chevy truck out there with over 1 million miles on it. That's what we call anecdotal data, not useful for looking at reality. As an engineer who has set warranty on numerous products, I will tell you that the 100k figure was carefully calculated by Toyota to be a bit shy of where they will start losing a lot of $$ to warranty replacement batteries. That number also tells me that most folks should get 100k easily without any problem. After that, Toyota wants no part of them. And in most cases, you will get to pay a not-small fee to dispose of those depleted batteries, recycled or not. And unless they really take off more than they have, you won't have any after-market support (read: less expensive) source for new batteries: Toyota/Honda will have you by the short ones. If you only keep the hybrid 3 years and stay well under 100k, you should be fine, go for it. If however, you tend to keep cars forever the battery issue means that a hybrid won't last as long as a standard gasoline vehicle, or will reach the financial black hole sooner. On average, of course, stuff happens. imho, hybrids are a great vehicle for low mileage leasees. The painful reality is that a gasoline /diesel powered Honda or Toyota is easily good for over 200-300k and still has value. A hybrid over 100k is going to take a HUGE resale hit due to the real (or perceived) need to replace those batteries soon at a cost of several thousand smackers. I would (and have) bought Toyotas/Hondas with around 100k miles on them. But I wouldn't touch a hybrid at 100k with a 10 ft pole.... In reality, most engineers consider the hybrid a decent interim short-term solution, and that diesels will probably win out in the long run, and pure electric in the very, very distant future. They are just much simpler.
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I don't see any value for myself getting a hybrid and people still buying it thinking that they will be saving money them, but most don't realize that instead of benefiting themselves they benefit everyone else around. So what values does buying a hybrid bring... ... Cheaper prices on regular gas cars ... Support improvements of hybrid and/or electric technology ... Better for environment Benefits for yourself... None!
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Replying to: klas (Aug 28, 2008 11:53 am) |
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Replying to: kenlw (Aug 28, 2008 10:47 am) As an engineer you will appreciate the significance of the following data points.... In 41 states, soon 40, the hybrid warranty is 8 yrs or 100,000 miles. In 9 states, soon 10, the hybrid warranty is 10 yrs or 150,000 miles. Toyota has benchtested the HV batteries to 180,000 miles ( 20% longer than the longest warranty ) and found no deterioration in the HV battery system. It's statement is that the battery packs should last the life of the vehicle under normal conditions. The DOE at the direction of the Fed govt is in the process of testing all hybrids on the road. Idaho National Labs is doing these tests in real world conditions to 160,000 miles. The early tests on the first ones are done with no detrimental deterioration of the batteries. The Fuel economy is even improved somewhat. The Prius is THE No 1 most reliable vehicle in its class in both CR and JD Power's annual surveys. The Camry Hybrid is No 4 in the class. Your resale comment is speculation at best. There is no proof of that whatsoever. In fact the Prius right now today is by far the best vehicle in holding its resale value. This is not a joke but you can sell a 1 y.o. used Prius for well above the MSRP of a new 2008 Prius. It's currently happening hundreds of times a day. A lot of your opinions are unfounded fears from early in this decade. You might want to bring yourself up to date. Keep current ( ewwww) on the engineering validations and the increasing body of date being formed by over 1 million of these vehicles now in NA. |
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Replying to: klas (Aug 28, 2008 11:53 am) Personally I moved from a comfortable 4c Camry to a Prius. Since I drive 35000-40000 miles annually there is no comparison between the two. At the end of my 6-7 yr ownership at about 250,000 miles I will be well over $10000 ahead of the game a safer vehicle with more features. So there is a personal benefit. Many of the owners I know also drive huge miles each year. A friend who also posts here is now at 210,000 miles in 4.5 yrs ( it's his office ) and will reach 250,000 miles when the next Gen 3 arrives next summer. That will be his third Prius. He's made a HUGE amount of money billing his mileage at the IRS rate while paying far less than that in actual outlays. There is definitely personal benefits to be found for yourself. You need to open your mind somewhat. |
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kdhspyder: a 1 yr old Prius is not anywhere near the 100k mark.
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Replying to: kenlw (Aug 29, 2008 5:24 am) Now if you want to do a comparison of like vehicles, hybrid and non-hybrid... use a 2004 Prius and its non-hybrid sibling the Matrix. Or take a 2002 Prius and compare it to a 2002 Corolla. At average miles and average condition the Prius holds more value than either one. That old 'flat worlder' fear of battery-life just isn't supported by actual facts. It doesn't fly for 1-y.o. vehicles, 5-y.o. vehicles or 7 y.o. vehicles. In fact according to both Toyota and the DOE hybrids ( all of them ) perform the same or better at 160,000 miles as does a new vehicle. Another unfounded misconception is put to rest. |
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| I am considering an '07 Camry Hybrid with 42K. Toyota's warranty is 10 yr/100k on the battery pack. I am concerned that at nearly half of the 100k has already been used up and then what would I face as the packs are expensive?? | |
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