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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Prius Help me understand the value of the hybrid.
38 messages, Last post on Sep 11, 2008 at 7:55 PM
You are in the Toyota Prius Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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May I ask why you are overlooking the Civic Hybrid? $22,600, comes with lots of standard equipment (Automatic Climate Control, Steering-Wheel Mounted Audio Controls, PW, PL, etc...45MPG Hwy estimated. Seems like it would be a good middle-of-the-road choice for you. Lower initial cost, still gets great mileage. |
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Replying to: etroup (Dec 26, 2007 12:13 pm) The information -I've- seen indicates they usually last much longer than that. The original Prius (Prius Classic - 2000 to 2003 in the US) -may- have battery problems sooner than the current car. Toyota has improved the batteries a lot in the current model. One problem estimating battery life is the current model car has only been here for 4 years max. Very few owners put more than 25,000 mi on a car each year. Now, I'm not going to gloss over battery failures. There have been somewhere around 10 to 15 in the current model (2004 to 2008) according to Toyota US, last I heard (this past summer). All were warranty replacements. Considering there are well over a million cells "on the road" that is a small failure rate indeed! There are 168 cells in each Prius. If one fails the battery will have problems. Amazing that so few have problems, isn't it! For example, there is a Camry Hybrid with over 336,137 mi on the original batteries. There is a Prius taxi in Vancouver BC with over 300,000 km on the original batteries. Perhaps you should rephrase that to "I think the batteries may only last XXX mi". The Prius is still at the top of the list re most economical fuel wise. That is NOT the only or even a good reason to buy one. It is also one of the lowest emitters of pollutants. It is very well designed body wise, being very adaptable to carrying a wide variety of loads. It is also rated as the most reliable family sedan by Consumer Reports. If it falls in your economic ability to buy one, I see no reason to shy away. I love mine. I bought it because, in order of importance to me: 1. Body design is amazing - outside the size of a "small car", inside the size of a "midsize car". Extremely adaptable, and well thought out! 2. Technology. It's an amazing piece of work. 3. Fuel efficiency. You may or may not ever recover the "hybrid premium", but as nobody can foresee the future, that point will be debated ad nausium!
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quoted from railroadjames......."Don't forget...you're 'greening' the world!!" Hate to sound like a pessimist, but there is little that hybrids do to "green" the world. Considering the environmental damage that occurs during the making and disposal of hybrid batteries (this info. is widely available on the Web and other places) one really has to question how much they are really helping dear Mother Earth. People buy hybrids for MPGs. But, after one does his/her due diligence and realizes there is virtually no benefit from a cost perspective when comparing price of entry into a hybrid and return of fuel savings, they realize it doesn't make any sense. It can take many, many years to recoup the investment depending on how many miles one drives each year. In a nutshell, hybrids present nearly zero value to a consumer at this point. Of course, this will likely change as more and more hybrids are manufactured and prices begin falling. Additionally, rising gas prices could begin to create measurable value as well. However, until engineers can design eco-friendly batteries, hybrids will never truly be "green" and will continue their own destructive nature to the environment.
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Replying to: g_allen (Mar 20, 2008 1:48 pm)  $3.20 per gal). Oh!! Lets not forget resale value. Bought mine for $19,995.00 plus s&h. Today (onaverage book is 16-17K). See any used for sale? Very rare. Find any other car worth as much. One more thing Motor Trend...Car & Driver...Consumers Report. ..All praise the Prius. They must be pretty smart I'd say. So ...Where's the "zero value" you threw into the equation? Lastly...I feel pretty smart as to the continued body style since it's basically the same for 6 yrs. Must be a keeper by those kind of numbers. Warrantee ain't bad either. I've owned over 50 cars (I'm 63yrs young) and had some great and some not so great. The Prius ranks #1....nuff said. 
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Replying to: etroup (Dec 26, 2007 12:13 pm)
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Replying to: railroadjames (Mar 20, 2008 6:45 pm) |
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Replying to: carbot (Mar 20, 2008 8:25 pm) By the way I just did a 2,000 mile trip on my Prius and averaged 43 MPG at 75 MPH, full loaded with three adults plus gear. The car felt solid and confident in heavy downpours, but traction is marginal on wet unsurfaced pavement. |
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Replying to: pathstar1 (Dec 26, 2007 1:36 pm) Most INDUSTRY estimates (it is still too early to have enough real data, altho I have started seeing some) are that most hybrid batteries will last ON AVERAGE 150k miles. Meaning some will last longer, some won't make it that far. Toyota warrants theirs to 100k. That's less than 3 years for me. And there's a Chevy truck out there with over 1 million miles on it. That's what we call anecdotal data, not useful for looking at reality. As an engineer who has set warranty on numerous products, I will tell you that the 100k figure was carefully calculated by Toyota to be a bit shy of where they will start losing a lot of $$ to warranty replacement batteries. That number also tells me that most folks should get 100k easily without any problem. After that, Toyota wants no part of them. And in most cases, you will get to pay a not-small fee to dispose of those depleted batteries, recycled or not. And unless they really take off more than they have, you won't have any after-market support (read: less expensive) source for new batteries: Toyota/Honda will have you by the short ones. If you only keep the hybrid 3 years and stay well under 100k, you should be fine, go for it. If however, you tend to keep cars forever the battery issue means that a hybrid won't last as long as a standard gasoline vehicle, or will reach the financial black hole sooner. On average, of course, stuff happens. imho, hybrids are a great vehicle for low mileage leasees. The painful reality is that a gasoline /diesel powered Honda or Toyota is easily good for over 200-300k and still has value. A hybrid over 100k is going to take a HUGE resale hit due to the real (or perceived) need to replace those batteries soon at a cost of several thousand smackers. I would (and have) bought Toyotas/Hondas with around 100k miles on them. But I wouldn't touch a hybrid at 100k with a 10 ft pole.... In reality, most engineers consider the hybrid a decent interim short-term solution, and that diesels will probably win out in the long run, and pure electric in the very, very distant future. They are just much simpler.
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I don't see any value for myself getting a hybrid and people still buying it thinking that they will be saving money them, but most don't realize that instead of benefiting themselves they benefit everyone else around. So what values does buying a hybrid bring... ... Cheaper prices on regular gas cars ... Support improvements of hybrid and/or electric technology ... Better for environment Benefits for yourself... None!
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