Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
SUVs Acura MDX Pre-2007 Acuras All Flunk Rear-End Crash Tests
39 messages, Last post on Jul 19, 2008 at 7:41 AM
You are in the Acura MDX Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
|
|
|---|---|
So am I to surmise that my '04 MDX failed this test because the head rest height is too low? It's adjustable so that mine is hitting the back of my head much higher than what's shown as poor in the diagram.  Anyone else w/ a pre '07 MDX confused by this?
|
|
|
|
|
UpstateDoc: 1) I share your concern, though now my confusion is somewhat less --- especially after doing a little more research. First, here is the problem in non-technical terms described at Autospies.Com, itself reviewing the IIHS tests. I'm quoting the first four paragraphs only: "In stop and go commuter traffic, you're more likely to get in a rear-end collision than any other crash type," says David Zuby, senior vice president of the Institute's Vehicle Research Center. "It's not a major feat of engineering to design seats and head restraints that afford good protection in these common crashes." "Rear-end collisions are frequent, and neck injuries are the most common injuries reported in auto crashes. They account for 2 million insurance claims each year, costing at least $8.5 billion. Such injuries aren't life-threatening, but they can be painful and debilitating. "Good seat/head restraint designs keep people's heads and torsos moving together: When a vehicle is struck in the rear and driven forward, its seats accelerate occupants' torsos forward. Unsupported, an occupant's head will lag behind this forward torso movement, and the differential motion causes the neck to bend and stretch. The higher the torso acceleration, the more sudden the motion, the higher the forces on the neck, and the more likely a neck injury is to occur. "The key to reducing whiplash injury risk is to keep the head and torso moving together. To accomplish this, the geometry of a head restraint has to be adequate - high enough to be near the back of the head. Then the seat structure and stiffness characteristics must be designed to work in concert with the head restraint to support an occupant's neck and head, accelerating them with the torso as the vehicle is pushed forward.""In stop and go commuter traffic, you're more likely to get in a rear-end collision than any other crash type," says David Zuby, senior vice president of the Institute's Vehicle Research Center. "It's not a major feat of engineering to design seats and head restraints that afford good protection in these common crashes." http://www.autospies.com/news/IIHS-Finds-Most-Vehicles-Have-Poor-Head-Restraints- -17151/ 2) The last paragraph is the key: the head-rest has to actively support and presumably keep the forward momentum caused by the crash of the head and neck moving in tandem with the rest of the body. That does seem to suggest a tip: keep the head-rest very close to your neck and head --- maybe even grazing the back of them --- and hence adjust the head-rest (restraint) and seat so that's the case. The head-rest should, simultaneously, be at least half-way up the head and maybe higher if possible. 3) The wisdom of this tip gains some support if you then go back and read the IIHS link, describing the dummy test. It shows that the seat angle of the dummy --- which is the length of an average man --- is set back at 20 degrees . . . described at the IIHS site as representing what most drivers do with their seats' backs. Hence it seems, without being fully certain, that keeping the seat as perpendicular as possible, with the back of your head grazing the head-rest, will help you and your passengers in an accident. You should, of course, tell the passengers to adjust their seats similarly. 4) As for a recall, or any help from Acura at all, I talked to the Acura customer service dept. and was stonewalled. The fellow wouldn't pass me on to an Acura engineer at the mfg. plant, said that Acura is convinced that the pre-2007 Acuras are safe, said further that there is no intent by Acura to warrant any recall or switch. 5) Finally, I talked to the parts dept. at an Acura dealerhship in north-western L.A. (there's none here in Santa Barbara). The fellow there was helpful. He checked and found that the seat design and head-restraints produced after June 2007 are incompatible with the seats in the pre-2007 Acura MDX. That's a shame, but nothing else can be done, it seems, other than selling your MDX for the post-2007 MDX or for another SUV that did pass the rear-end collision test too --- selling it, in short, or keeping it and hoping that the seat adjustment will help protect you and your passengers if your car is hit from behind. Michael There are, I add, in the newer vehicles, what are called "active" head restraints. There's a mechanism in the seats that, once the vehicle senses a rear-end collision, thrusts the head-restraint forward against the head and neck of the occupants, so that their heads and necks move in tandem with the rest of their bodies. Conceivably, that's what the MDX produced after 2007 (June) now does. Hard to tell. |
|
|
|
|
In the previous post, read for "20 degrees" backward slant of the seat, "25 degrees" And, to keep the head and neck moving in tandem with the torso as they both hurl forward from a rear-end collision, it isn't just the head-restraint that counts, but also the seat design and structure. Michael PS Too bad we can't get a class-action suit against Acura, forcing it to replace the dangerous seats and head-restraints. When I talked to the customer service rep, he assured me that Acura considered the pre-2007 MDX and other Acura vehicles fully safe. They obviously aren't. There seems to be a liability issue involved here. I add that, as a professor, I'm not the one who has the time or money to start such a suit, but possibly there are others in these forums who do.
|
|
|
Replying to: gordongordo (Dec 05, 2007 4:55 pm) 
|
|
|
|
|
Mecheng: I'm beginning to wonder if you're employed, one way or another, by Acura. If not, please forgive the suspicious comment just made, but you seem indignant at the very thought of such a suit. To answer your questions, I called the Acura customer service dept. yesterday. My question was whether the pre-June 2007 Acura seats and head-restraints could be changed, at my expense, for the safer seats and head-restraints. The customer rep didn't know. I then asked if there were any planned safety adjustments for those pre-June 2007 vehicles. He said, explicitly --- I had him repeat it --- that Acura regards those vehicles as fully safe. That strikes me as opening Acura to a law-suit in the event of a rear-end collision that causes major injuries to the occupants in a pre-June 2007 vehicle. Had the rep simply said that Acura regrets these problems, that might have been different, but that is not what he claimed. (I add that when I suggested to him that Acura was opening itself to a law suit if that represented the company's position, he excused himself and obviously talked for a good minute or two to a higher-up in the company I add that he would not give me the telephone number of the plant where the MXD is produced. I simply wanted to talk to an engineer there who knew more about the issue, but the rep refused to give it to me . . . as though it were some major state-secret. Chrysler, I can tell you from personal experience, had no hesitation when, years go, I called customer service and asked if he could transfer me to a qualified engineer. Why is Acura so secretive here? If you're connected with it, kindly let me know.) I hope this puts the issue in perspective. Michael PS: No, a pillow wouldn't likely support the head-neck bend in a rear-end collision. You're underestimating the tremendous forceful thrust of the occupants forward, with the neck-and-head lagging. The best protection is to keep the seat as perpendicular as possible, with the back of your head squarely against the head-restraint. Whether that's as good as the seat and active head-restraint fix that Acura made after June 2007 is another matter. The mfg. company obviously realized it had a problem with safety.
|
|
|
Replying to: gordongordo (Dec 06, 2007 10:56 am) Perspective is exactly what I am trying to acheive on this issue. IMHO your perspective is too narrow. If I had an answer to my question about how many vehicles have seat designs that fail the IIHS criteria ....then I would have some perspective about how egregious this negligence is on the part of Acura. Or maybe we are just exaggerating the danger - using the results of a highly specific test on a situation (seating) the involves many many variables (too many to meaningfully extrapolate the results to every pre-mid-2007 MDX). Good Luck. 
|
|
| This annoys me because when I bought mine (built in March 2007), one of the features touted and which sold me on it was the rear crash results - five stars! I put my kids in the "way back" and it was important to me. Having said that, I doubt a suit would do anything. Its always possible to build it safer. Too bad Acura doesn't seem willing to do a retrofit for the preApril 2007 new MDXs. | |
|
|
|
Replying to: mecheng1 (Dec 07, 2007 8:23 am) Many thanks again for your continued replies, but I note that you didn't answer my two queries, and so I'd like to ask them again: 1) Are you employed, directly or indirectly, by Acura . . . indirectly meaning that you are paid or compensated to post in this forum? 2) If so, why was the Acura customer rep so reluctant to give me the location and telephone number of the factory where the Acura is produced, so that --- as Chrysler willingly did in the past --- talk to a relevant engineer? Michael
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: mecheng1 (Dec 07, 2007 8:23 am) He added that he was told that by the Acura service rep directly. Too bad the Acura customer-service knows nothing about this. Michael
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: gordongordo (Dec 08, 2007 10:19 am) Seems expensive, yes . . . but if the bigger, fully inflated tire does help cushion a rear-end collision, $400 might then appear well worth it. Michael
|
|
You are here:
Forums
SUVs Acura MDX Pre-2007 Acuras All Flunk Rear-End Crash Tests
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2009 Acura MDX
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
