Last post on Jul 09, 2013 at 12:46 PM
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Toyota Camry, Sedan
#776 of 1079 Re: V6 or I4?? [guntherhops] V-6 hands down - it much quieter & smoother
Mar 15, 2009 (4:17 am)
Get the V6. PERIOD. Its Lexus drive train is smooth as silk and wins out in highway gas mileage. I am phobic about my cars and have an 09 LE V6. Prior experience with Toyota V6 engines is as follows: 1997 Camry V6 (first year they put the Lexus engine in the Camry), 1999 Solara SLE V6, 2001 Avalon V6, wife’s 2002 Lexus ES300 V6. All got/get great gas mileage on the highway and NONE have ever had any warranty or non warranty repairs other than brake pads. All get/got 4-5K 5W30 oil changes. I sold my Avalon to a friend at 88K miles and he now has 190,000 miles on it and has done nothing but normal maintenance and 2 sets of tires and gets 30 mpg highway.
My V6 gets 36 mpg on the highway on 700 mile round trips from Kansas City to Cedar Rapids Iowa on premium fuel averaging 70 mph. My wife’s ES300 gets 30 mpg on the same round trip. In 50/50 city highway driving overall, I get 30 mpg. In tests by Consumer Reports on regular fuel, 50/50 city highway they got 24mpg with the I4 and 23 with the V6. In that same test, the V-6 got better highway mileage even with regular gas. The reason to use mid range or premium gas in the V6 is that the Camry has a de-tuned Lexus engine with an electronic spark advance feature that detects higher octane gas and advances the timing accordingly to get more power and about 10% better gas mileage. Camry V6 is 268 Horsepower; Lexus is 272. The reason is the difference is that the fuel recommendation on the Lexus is Premium.
Only about 10-15% of Camry’s have the V6 with six speed transmission. The I4 gets a couple miles better to the gallon in stop and go city driving but the V6 gets at least 5 more mpg on the highway. The I4 is horrifically underpowered and suffers from all kinds of transmission and vibration problems because the five speed transmission can barely handle theEPA gas mileage and 50 state emission control requirements. Just scroll to the beginning of this forum and notice all the problems with TSB’s and transmission issues. The 2007 & 2008 V6 had transmission problems as well but all the TSB fixes were incorporated beginning with the 2009 model year.
Buy a 2010 if you can get a decent deal on it since they now come standard with traction and stability control. If you get a 2009, I suggest you get one with the traction and stability control option since living on the east coast, you have to deal with snow and ice. When you do the upgrade to the V6 (not sure if you want LE,SE with tight suspension and 17” wheels, or XLE trim) and pay the extra $2,300 you not only get the extra 100 horsepower and the smooth as glass Lexus Engine, you also get a Lexus drive train.
According to the KBB website, the comparable invoice prices are as follows:
Camry 2010 LE I4 is $20,540 – 16”steel wheels & plastic hub caps; 215/60 tires.
Camry 2010 LE V6 is $22,825 – 16” steel wheels & plastic hub caps; 215/60 tires.
Camry 2010 SE V6 is $23,974 – 17” alloy wheels 215/55 tires; tighter suspension
Camry 2010 XLE is $ 26,858 – 16” alloy wheels 215/60 tires; leather trim; JBL sound, etc.
Lexus 2009 ES3350 is $31599 - 17” alloy 215/55 wheels & cloth seats (2010 Lexus is not out yet)
I paid $22,066 for my 09 LE in April of 08 after a $500 cash back incentive. Performance is flawless. According to kbb, the invoice price was $22,513 and the car does not have traction control. Only trip back to the dealer was for 6 month oil change that cost all of $35 including tax to fill the 6.4 quart crankcase. For the price, the car is perfection – except for the cheap looking OEM hubcaps which I am about to replace with aftermarket 17 inch wheels and tires as noted a prior post.
#777 of 1079 Re:V6 or I4??[guntherhops]Also, break in & EPA vs Real World
Mar 15, 2009 (5:15 am)
When I bought my car, the ignorant sales person made a point of telling me the engine comes "already broken in" and you can floor it from day 1. I then referred the moron to page 118 of the 480 page owner's manual (more aptly described as the owner's book) which states as follows:
For the first 994 miles (1600 km):
*Do not drive at extremely high speeds
*Avoid sudden acceleration
*Do not drive continuously in low gears
*Do not drive at a constant speed for extended periods
I always follow these instructions and believe that is one reason I get such good gas mileage.
As to the EPA estimates, when the '07 first came out it was rated 31. Then in 2008, the EPA lowered all the numbers - for the camry v6, highway went from 31 down to 28 for the 2009 model year.
Which states as follows:
1 These new estimates are about 1-3 gallons per mile less (city and highway) than the old figures. The new way of calculating mileage takes into account three factors: faster speeds and acceleration, the use of air conditioners, the operation of a vehicle in cold temperature.
2 The EPA still advises that your personal driving style effects mileage. So does the condition of your vehicle.
3 Certain consumer groups have praised the decision, feeling that it more accurately represents real world mileage of inefficient drivers.
Virtually every Toyota or Lexus vehicle we've owned since 1991 has exceeded the EPA highway mileage posted on the sticker by at least 10%.
The 2009 4cyl says EPA 31 highway vs 28 for the V6. This is a laboratory test that does not take into account the fact that the underpowered 4 cyl in the real world has to practically put the "pedal to the metal" to make it up a steep hill or battle a strong headwind.
My best friend's inlaws have a 2003 Avalon V6 and a 2008 Camry I4. They are retired and do a lot of highway driving. They told me their Avalon gets better mileage on the highway than the Camry. They are over 75 years old and drive fairly low speeds on the highway and claim to get close to 40 mpg highway with their V6.
My neighbor has a 2007 Camry CE I4 company car that is driven almost exclusively on the highway and has 60,000 miles on it. He says he (only) gets around 30 mpg driving 70-75 on the highway.
#778 of 1079 Re: V6 or I4?? [guntherhops] - More independent validation of gas mileage
Mar 15, 2009 (5:33 am)
I have seen these comments on various internet sites, but here is one I just went to after a Yahoo search of camry v6 gas mileage. This guy gets 34 mpg.
Camry SE v6 is amazing
from Ogden, Utah
Overall 5 stars
Appearance 4 stars
Comfort 4 stars
Performance 5 stars
Value 5 stars
Pros:I've had ALMOST 34 MPG's before in my V6. It's amazing I drive 100+ miles a day ConsThe seats are a bit stiff on longer rides but that is expected. Nothing to complain about. I bought this car in February of 08, and unfortunately I drive it a lot, it already has 20,000+ miles on it but still rides like I just drove it off the lot. I have gotten 33+ mpg's a few times on this v6 engine. It's amazing. I usually get however 29-31 mpg's in it, so still not bad. It did better than my 2002 Honda Accord that was a 4 cylinder! The stereo sounds great and the newer model (especially the SE) has a great sexy look to it. I LOVE the front end of the car and the back end looks great too. The hp in the v6 is definitely nice. It definitely can get up and go when you need it to without it buckling down. I drove a Ford Fusion before and it was a nice car but I'm glad I got the Camry instead, because just from experience with Toyota's I KNOW it will last me forever. One last point is the Camry does spectacular in the snow
#779 of 1079 Re: V6 or I4?? [guntherhops] V-6 hands down - it much quieter & smoother [paul3637]
Mar 15, 2009 (4:11 pm)
I would disagree with the comment about the I-4 being " is horrifically underpowered and suffers from all kinds of transmission and vibration problems because the five speed transmission can barely handle theEPA gas mileage and 50 state emission control requirements. Just scroll to the beginning of this forum and notice all the problems with TSB’s and transmission issues".
First, the Camry I-4 had a few issues that have been corrected with two TSBs that just involve the computer being reprogrammed (takes about a half hour.) Second, the Camry I-4 is not the slowest midsized car. Don't let the horsepower rating fool you, you have to look at torque also, and the Camry has more useable torque than many others in it's class. You can see 0-60 numbers on the net if you want, and you'll be surprised. Finally, the 2010 Camry being shipped to dealers right now has a NEW 2.5 liter engine and 6 speed auto or 6 speed manual transmission that is quicker and more fuel efficient than the 2007-2009 Camry.
I'm not saying the V-6 is bad (it is having an issue with an oil leak right now that Toyota has not yet released a TSB for). It is very fast and efficient, but the four is not nearly as bad IMHO and experience that you make it out to be. Consider the new 2010 I-4 AND the V-6, and let us know what you decide.
#780 of 1079 Re: V6 or I4?? [guntherhops] It's about priorites mcdawgg
Mar 16, 2009 (2:15 am)
Even if the 2010 Camry has the Venza I4 4-Cyl, 2.7 L 182 HP engine, (kbb does not have the updated stats yet), the difference is still the same. The I4 is centainly adequate but guntherops' prioritis are smooth quiet ride and good fuel economy - thus I stand by my advice that the V6 fits HIS top priorities which are the same as mine.
If his top priorities were exterior styling, nice looking interior, and handling, I would say get an Accord if he could can handle the road noise. If his priorities were American brand and styling, I would say go with the new 3.5 Liter V6 263 Horsepower 2010 Ford Taurus SE with an invoice price of $23,983,17" painted aluminum wheels and the same 28mpg EPA highway rating as the Camry SEV6.
If his top priorities were image, smooth poweful ride, and luxurious interior, I'd say get a Lexus ES350.
If his top priorities were flashy styling, once a year 15,000 mile (synthetic) oil changes and lots of power, I would say get a 300 horsepower BMW Turbo Diesel 335d like my brother drives - and not to worry (at least if you live in Dallas, Texas); BMW gives you a free loaner car when you take it in for its bi-weekly warranty
claim service !!!!
#781 of 1079 09 transmission update
Mar 16, 2009 (3:19 am)
I brought the car into the dealer Saturday morning and had the TSB performed. The problem has disappeared and the car drives great. Thanks to all who responded. Just a note- the service writers didn't appreciate the fact that I had the TSB numbers and facts when I arrived at the service desk. However the mechanic who test drove the car with me was glad to see customers well informed about their cars.
#782 of 1079 Re: 09 transmission update [bjosephs]
Mar 16, 2009 (3:50 am)
Great to hear you had the TSBs done and you're happy with the car. I guess some service writers are different than others. When I had mine done last summer, they were more than fine that I had the info.
#783 of 1079 Re: 09 transmission update [bjosephs]
Mar 16, 2009 (5:48 am)
Did they do both TSB's or just the 0069-08 that had to do with the lugging or shudder problem? Thanks.
#784 of 1079 guntherhops post #779 RE V6 oil leak-There is a TSB; only applies to '07's
Mar 16, 2009 (7:51 am)
It appears the issue applies only to 05 & 06 Avalons plus 07 Camrys. TSB EG0380-06 states that a production run change was effective October 2006 as copied and pasted in relevant part as follows: :
Title:2GR-FE (V6) ENGINE OIL LEAK
Models: ’05 – ’06 Avalon & ’07 Camry (V6)
Technical Service BULLETIN June 19, 2006 TSB REVISION NOTICE:
October 9, 2006: Production Change Information has been added. The Applicable
Warranty has been updated in the Warranty Information table.
Previous versions of this TSB should be discarded.
Some 2GR–FE engines may display evidence of a small oil leak, located on the rear side
of Bank 1. The source has been identified as unused side and end bolt holes in the right hand (Bank 1) cam housing. A repair procedure has been developed to correct
�� 2005 – 2006 model year Avalon vehicles.
�� 2007 model year Camry vehicles equipped with the V6 engine.
MODEL PLANT PRODUCTION CHANGE EFFECTIVE VIN
TMMK, Line 1 4T1BK46K#7U003571
TMMK, Line 2 4T1BK46K#7U501527
I did find several instances in Internet Forums about Camrys leaking oil but they all involve the 2007 model year. Some Australian built Avalons had a more serious problem that required a more complex fix.
#785 of 1079 Re: 09 transmission update [exler]
Mar 16, 2009 (8:16 am)
They just did the shudder problem, she doesn't have the hesitation problem in her camry. It took about 45 minutes to complete the flashing.