Article Comments - Cadillac V-Series: V for Vexation

12 messages, Last post on Mar 21, 2009 at 4:14 PM

You are in the Cadillac CTS/CTS-V Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Cadillac STS-V, Cadillac CTS-V, Cadillac XLR-V, Sedan

Cadillac V-Series: V for Vexation - The V-Series cars have garnered mixed reviews since Cadillac introduced the original CTS-V in 2004. The V-Series idea began with the Cadillac Northstar LMP racing sports car that went to the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2000 - 2002, and then found its expression in the CTS-V that entered the SCCA's Speed GT racing championship in 2004 and then won the championship in 2005-'07. Yet for every person who wanted the V-Series to be a racing car, another suggested that a luxury car in the style of a Mercedes-Benz AMG might be a better answer. (more)

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#3 of 12 Quality counts by sptsdn Dec 01, 2007 (1:28 pm)
GM still has a problem in the fact they are better at promoting vehicles than they are at building them. I find it fascinating that GM wonders why they aren't selling. Have they really looked and driven the competition? I mean really looked at them. The materials and build quality are far superior in the BMW and Audi. HP and 0-60 doesn't matter when you open up the door and find acres of cheap plastic and leather that looks like it came from a fake cow. Stop relying on the myth that because it's a Cadillac or because it's American people will buy it. Quality counts. It bears repeating, quality counts. I've always been intrigued by the V-series and from time to time think, hey I could see myself in one of those (CTS-V). Of course, once I go look at them closely, I'm immediately reminded why I'm not. Too bad GM feels comfortable building a car at only 80% of its potential. Replies to this message: aldw (Dec 01, 2007 2:54 pm) sptsdn (Dec 01, 2007 3:50 pm) kqqlv (Mar 21, 2009 12:53 pm) cdnpinhead (Mar 21, 2009 1:17 pm) kqqlv (Mar 21, 2009 4:14 pm)
#4 of 12 Re: Quality counts [sptsdn] by aldw Dec 01, 2007 (2:54 pm)
Replying to: sptsdn (Dec 01, 2007 1:28 pm) GM gets bagged if they take too long to make something perfect, and if they rush to get something on the market early. Better that they get it right on their own time than to let naysayers constantly bitch about vehicles they wouldn't buy in any case. Replies to this message: sptsdn (Dec 01, 2007 3:50 pm)
#5 of 12 Re: Quality counts [aldw] by sptsdn Dec 01, 2007 (3:50 pm)
Replying to: aldw (Dec 01, 2007 2:54 pm) Obviously every car is going to have flaws but the quality of materials shouldn't affect the amount of time it takes to get a car to market. Selecting a higher grade leather takes the exact same amount of time as it does to select a lower grade. Using materials that are pleasant to the touch doesn't take longer to build, they just cost a little bit more. GM and BMW (and others) have the exact same amount of time to design, engineer, and assemble cars. And every manufacturer finds ways of cutting corners. Unfortunately GM typically cuts corners where it counts - where it's visible. GM needs to find ways of saving costs where the customer can't really see. This way, they would have a chance of pulling buyers out of their European and Japanese cars. One thing is for sure, they have the styling and powertrains down - the current line-up of Cadillac's are some of the best they've made in years; just fix those cheap interiors.
#6 of 12 Good luck to Cadillac by homerjs Dec 02, 2007 (4:54 pm)
Personally, i think V series is a nice thought. But here is the problem. No matter how powerful the cars are, when people spend that kind of money, absolute performance is not the only criteria as there is the prestige and snob factor. GM makes Cadillacs, as well as Chevy, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, GMC, Buick, Saturns. Mercedes makes nothing except Benz, BMW makes nothing except Bimmers and neither makes a single pickup truck. Do you see my point? Beside the issue of image, there is the problem of perceived quality that rubs off on Cadillacs. Sptsdn is right on about interior quality. GM overall has gotten so much better but still has a way to go to match the imports. Not even talking about the Germans...I had a 1995 accord that had a better interior than any of the GMs up to recently. Controls are well laid out, not a single rattle for 270,000, there were no sharp angular lines inside the car. As simple as the interior was, it had soft curvy contours with harmonious lines, one flowing into the next making them. I always like the CTS-V b/c of its performance but then it got bad marks for ultra stiff suspension and it was way too expensive as was mentioned above. I am young and love to drive a fast car but for that money, I'd rather get the GS460, M45, or spend more and get the slower but more prestigious 550i, E550, CLK550 or even the much slower 535i, 528i, E350, CLK350. Even if the CTS-V was 40K, I'd still rather get the IS350, 335i, C350. GM should get these 3 cars along with an A4, G35 and compare their interiors with the CTS and see why people are not buying the CTS. Also the chiseled exterior is novel at first but is now a bit old. I prefer even the old 3 series and C class exterior to the CTS. I am sorry but a lot of my collegues feel the same way. The 2008 CTS is better looking so the 2009 has a bit more hope. Only way i'd go for a 2009 CTS-V is that it cost less than 40K decently optioned. But then there is the 335i though which is a nice compact package with good enough performance for me.
#7 of 12 "SPORTS" sedan by ctsv1 Dec 06, 2007 (6:26 pm)
From a person that owners a 2004 CTS-V and uses it. The M45, M35, GS460, GS300, IS350, S4, S5, CLK350 CLK550, 328, 528, 335, 535, 550 and let’s not forget the M3 all very nice cars with top notch interiors. The CTS-V will put them all back on the trailer. If the interior was the main goal I’d buy a Fleetwood not a SPORTS sedan. As for price at 54K can anyone name a car that has the speed, the handling and the options that are standard on the CTS-V? Even in this article the pricing is misleading, add the options to any Germany made car and the price will be closer to 65k for the M3 and 90K for the M5. The V series has been out since 2004 without Alpina or AMG to build a cliental before BMW and Benz decided to bring the M and the in house AMG cars to market. It takes time to build and perfect a Sports division. The CTS-V could have a better dash layout and interior upgrades are on the way. So is 525HP. See you at the TRACK.
#8 of 12 v for volcano by vtude Apr 17, 2008 (9:15 pm)
how dare anyone can compare my 06 CTS-V to anything less than a M5 or 63AMG? i feel like a ferrari for 50K. and even most of the ferraris and porsches cant keep up. interior? i am too busy watching the road, i forgot to look inside. the three interior features i use while driving at triple digits are the big screen nav, the huge sunroof, and the mind blowing house music on my bose stereo. heck, its been 50K miles in two years and these features are living up to what i paid for. i dont see no snobby japanese or european luxury sedans or coupes or whatevers on my rearview mirror. and trust me, you wont be checking out the interior when you're a driver -or a passenger- in a CTS-V. stop reading, start driving.
#9 of 12 Top Dog by themachoman Sep 21, 2008 (6:31 am)
I've driven the Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Cadillac. I choose the STS-V. Why? BOTTOM LINE - It has the best style, substance, and value. Interior - Better leather and suede than the AMG - you read it right - BETTER THAN THE AMG. Believe me I own the car and know someone who owns the AMG. The person who's dissing the interior probably sat in the car for 2 minutes while browsing at the dealership. The STS-V has more leather, better leather and beautiful contrasting red suede. MACDADDY baby! BOTTOM LINE - the AMG is a snobbish blue blood while the V gets the girl!
#10 of 12 Re: Quality counts [sptsdn] by kqqlv Mar 21, 2009 (12:53 pm)
Replying to: sptsdn (Dec 01, 2007 1:28 pm) As long as we have people who rely on outdated talking points and myths that are demonstratably false we will continue to have discussions like this where North American car quality is belittled as if it were still 1985. Anyone who REALLY is into performance cars that are in the class of M's, R's, AMG's and V's and has followed any number of quality and reliability metrics that are published would know that Cadillac is equal to or superior to Audi, BMW, and until recently was miles ahead of Mercedes (as was everyone), when it comes to reliability and quality. BMW and Merc rely heavily on buyer loyalty and the got-a-have-it prestige factor. Just check out the JD Powers run down on quality over the last few years. In 2008 BMW was well below the industry average as was Mercedes for MANY years prior. Mercedes for years suffered from VERY poor quality. They have clawed their way back recently. So why are we talking as if that is not the case? Being a mechanical engineer myself I can tell you that the reason Cadillac doesn't put $20K worth of leather in the interior of the V is because they don't want to. They want to undercut the price of those M's, R's and AMG's by $20K-$30K. The reason they only sell 5K V's a year is because that is all they want to build. In 2008 only 2.5K M5's were sold. Why?....that's all they built !! V's don't even get a chance to get to the sales floor before they are gobbled up. I own a 2005 V and when compared to the M5 it can more than hold its own in any performance catagory on any day and do it it for $35,000 less. The guy in the 2005 M5 I passed at Nelson Ledges Race Track in Ohio last summer spent $85K because he wanted lots of leather on the inside, the BMW tag on the outside and probably thought the quality was superior to my V....but he was wrong.....and JD powers said so. Please spare us all your stories about friends who owned a Caddy and had transmission trouble. Because I'm bored with repeating the story of my office buddy's 2006 M3 that has cost him thousand's of dollars in mechanic bills since his warranty ran out. Hint to future car buyers: It is NO LONGER considered fashionable, vogue or a sign of snobby Eurocentric sophistication to belittle North American car quality. As we used to say down in Texas....That dog don't hunt! Replies to this message: cdnpinhead (Mar 21, 2009 1:17 pm) kqqlv (Mar 21, 2009 4:14 pm)
#11 of 12 Re: Quality counts [kqqlv] by cdnpinhead Mar 21, 2009 (1:17 pm)
Replying to: kqqlv (Mar 21, 2009 12:53 pm) Paragraphs are good. They help the reader follow the logic of the post and the train of thought, assuming either exists. That said, I did plow through. The CTS has had rear-end troubles and a number of other less-significant issues over the years. These are facts. Even so, it appears to be generally recognized as being a worthy vehicle. These are not good times to be marketing an upscale status toy, regardless of the make. If you want to discuss snob appeal, the Cadillac will come up short most of the time, if not always. If all you care about is how well it does on the road & how it makes you feel, then who cares what others think? I bought into the Lincoln LS hype nine or so years ago & can certify that American manufacturers can either drop or de-content a car in an instant. With the LS, they did both. I will never own another American car; the LS was my first and last. I went British, Swedish, Japanese & Canadian before the LS. Now I'm back to Asian. If the CTS, in its various forms, remains through the next few years, I'm sure it'll continue to be shown to be a worthy car. Whether the uplifted-nose crowd will ever consider it worthy remains to be seen. I'm guessing it'll never happen. You never know, though -- it's a fickle group. Who knows? Maybe you're driving what will be universally recognized as a classic in ten years. Maybe not. Replies to this message: kqqlv (Mar 21, 2009 4:14 pm)
#12 of 12 Re: Quality counts [cdnpinhead] by kqqlv Mar 21, 2009 (4:14 pm)
Replying to: cdnpinhead (Mar 21, 2009 1:17 pm) My V's wheel hop is annoying. Reports are the 09 has nailed it. My buddy would lick I-75 clean from Tipp City to Sidney rather than give up his never ending M3 transmission bills if it meant he could never have a BMW again. Engaging in tit 4 tat antidotal examples of poor or superior car quality is a chump's game....not that you are a chump. As JD Powers has shown, and when you take predictable statistical error into account, all but a few models and makes can claim essentially equal quality. Get a clue cdnPINHEAD. Bragging about the fact you will never own another American car again is nothing to ..............well.........brag about. It makes you look silly, uninformed and frankly like a Asiancentric snob.