Article Comments - 2009 Honda FCX Clarity First Drive

27 messages, Last post on Oct 23, 2008 at 1:29 PM

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What is this discussion about? Honda FCX, Alternative Fuels, Hybrid Cars, Sedan

First Drive: 2009 Honda FCX Clarity - The 2009 Honda FCX Clarity is fun to drive and also fun to be seen in. Best of all, the hydrogen fuel-cell sedan gets you where you want to go without burning a drop of gasoline. (more)

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#8 of 27 I just love the ENVY! by 6sptl Nov 29, 2007 (9:28 am)
Honda has just produced the car of the future. Technologically this car is at least a decade ahead of any other car company in the planet. I just roll with laughter and ennui when a huge hog like GM's creepy "new" hybrid gets the nod, while a car that the best engineers in NASA couldn't come up with gets the cold shoulder! BTW there is nothing new to GM's hybrid it is simply an adaptation of commuter bus technology that has been around for over a decade! Sorry for honda naysayers but in a few years a lot of people will be driving these and if other manufacturesrs want to catch up they'll be paying nice royalties for the use of the system Honda: The ONLY green car company on the planet!!!!! Replies to this message: stevedebi (Nov 29, 2007 12:55 pm) 6sptl (Nov 30, 2007 6:21 pm) stevedebi (Nov 30, 2007 9:54 pm) and 2 more... gagrice (Nov 30, 2007 8:46 pm)
#9 of 27 Re: I just love the ENVY! [6sptl] by stevedebi Nov 29, 2007 (12:55 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Nov 29, 2007 9:28 am) "I just roll with laughter and ennui when a huge hog like GM's creepy "new" hybrid gets the nod, while a car that the best engineers in NASA couldn't come up with gets the cold shoulder! " Funny you should mention that. Care to guess how the lunar missions were powered? Fuel cells, courtesy of NASA. The Honda fuel cell would not have "gotten the nod" because it isn't in production. The Yukon hybrid is. Replies to this message: 6sptl (Nov 30, 2007 6:21 pm) stevedebi (Nov 30, 2007 9:54 pm) 6sptl (Dec 01, 2007 2:42 pm) and 1 more...
#10 of 27 Re: I just love the ENVY! [stevedebi] by 6sptl Nov 30, 2007 (6:21 pm)
Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 29, 2007 12:55 pm) Wrong on multiple accounts, The clarity IS a production vehicle contrary to the VOLT which is a nonrunning protoype, it even uses the lithium batteries that both GM and toyota have said don't even exist Toyota was going to use them in the prius but could not engineer them for true mass production!. Though nasa has utilized fuel cells for decades none of their designs have ever been close to practical for anything on earth and none has even close to the same energy density that honda's FC stack provides thus NASA can learn a myriad of lessons from Honda (NASA could not use it anyway since the FC stack require gravity to function). BTW, Hoda's stack is a remarkable evolution of the 90's Ballard stack which was used in the original FCX. AS to the Yukon its about time GM came up with one since both toyota and Honda have been producing hybrids for 10years now! Even after 10 years of delay the yukon is a limited edition vehicle that costs 10K more than the regular HOG version, the entire exercise is too little, too late and in general kind of pathetic............. Replies to this message: stevedebi (Nov 30, 2007 9:54 pm) 6sptl (Dec 01, 2007 2:42 pm) stevedebi (Dec 03, 2007 12:06 pm)
#11 of 27 Re: I just love the ENVY! [6sptl] by gagrice Nov 30, 2007 (8:46 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Nov 29, 2007 9:28 am) Sorry for honda naysayers but in a few years a lot of people will be driving these How many is a lot? 20-30-40 at most. That car will not be on a Honda dealers lot for sale in our lifetime. Hydrogen still uses a lot of Natural Gas to produce. Honda may be the greenest auto maker. It is not with the FCX. It is the GCX that uses the NG as it comes out of the ground without a $100,000 worth of high tech crap in the middle. It is all for the publicity..... Pure and simple.
#12 of 27 Golly by varmint Nov 30, 2007 (9:34 pm)
Lots of gunk here. Why doesn't Honda build a hybrid version of this car? Well... I hate to answer a question with another question, but... where are they going to fit the gas engine, gas tank, transmission, and other systems? The FCX was designed around the fuel cell. The nose of the vehicle is far too short to fit both an electric motor and a gas engine. If you made all the changes necessary to convert this car into a gas-electric hybrid, you'd have built the HCH. There's no infrastructure for Hydrogen! Honda is not trying to replace the current gasoline infrastructure. Interviews with their engineers paint a picture where hydrogen, gas-electric hybrids, clean diesels, LNG, and other alternative fuels all have a place on the road. In the case of hydrogen, Honda does not expect all the gas stations to switch over. They expect people to fill up at home using reformed natural gas. They have partnered with another company to build units for exactly that purpose. The units serve dual purposes as they reform natural gas and also heat/power the home. Obviously, not everyone owns a home where they can do this. So, any talk about replacing the entire gasoline infrastructure is just plain silly. Isn't hydrogen reformation dirty? Yes, but not as dirty as burning coal or oil to make electricity or refining oil to make gasoline. Aren't EV cars cleaner? In a perfect world, yes. But only if they get their electricity from a clean source. Frankly, our infrastructure for clean electricity from sources like solar, wind, and nuclear (if you count that as clean) is no more ready for EVs than our infrastructure for hydrogen. Most of our electricity is produced the old fashioned (dirty) way. As a side note, Honda has produced their own remarkably advanced solar panels. More evidence that Honda is not expecting one energy source to dominate the market. Is the Clarity a production vehicle? No. Not yet. They aren't releasing it until 2008. Will it be a production vehicle once 2008 rolls around? Sort of. It will not be a mass-produced vehicle on a typical assembly line. Each unit will be manufactured on an assembly line that is as close as we get to hand-made without getting into coach building. In essence, it'll be mass produced in much the same way that the NSX, Insight, and S2000 are/were mass produced. Is Honda ahead of the rest? The FCX Clarity does not compare with the GM Yukon hybrid any better than a Liebherr T 282 B does with a Prius. If you want to unzip the corporate britches and compare technologies, use the FCX and the GM Sequel. While Honda has done wonders with packaging and the use of a vertical fuel cell stack to extend the range of operating conditions, GM and friends have developed an on-board storage tank which allows them to compress hydrogen at 10,000 psi instead of 5,000. (Toyota has borrowed this technology.) That added storage allows the Sequel - a vehicle about the same size as a Murano or Edge - to achieve a range of 300 miles. That's 30 more than the Accord-sized FCX Clarity. Obviously, both companies are making progress if not in the same directions. That said, I have not read any reports of the FCX Clarity breaking down, overheating, or requiring engineers on board while people drive it. Shawn Church was able to give it a nice little flogging on the turns of Mulholland drive. Meanwhile, the Sequel was forced to stop 3 times (overheating) when Chevy took two of them out for a 300 mile drive with the press. This was not long ago in May of 2007. Although both vehicles completed the 8 hour drive, an engineer rode along with his laptop plugged in to monitor the vehicle's vitals for the whole the trip. Bottom line... GM has prototypes. Honda has a real car. When the FCV Equinox arrives, it will be interesting to see how that stacks up (pardon the pun). Initial drives have been positive. How many is a lot? The plan is for 100 or more. Of course, this FCX will not be for sale in our lifetimes. By the time Honda is ready to mass produce for 100,000 units, they will be on the 7th generation of the FCX program, not the 3rd.
#13 of 27 Re: I just love the ENVY! [6sptl] by stevedebi Nov 30, 2007 (9:54 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Nov 30, 2007 6:21 pm) "Wrong on multiple accounts, " Actually, I was correct on all accounts. My point was the NASA used fuel cells over 40 years ago, and continues to use them - as you yourself noted in your post. They were a pioneer in the technology. If the Honda Fuel Cell vehicle is in production, please let me know where I can go to buy or lease one. The Yukon will be widely available to whoever wants to fork over that much money... Replies to this message: 6sptl (Dec 01, 2007 2:42 pm) stevedebi (Dec 03, 2007 12:06 pm)
#14 of 27 Re: I just love the ENVY! [stevedebi] by 6sptl Dec 01, 2007 (2:42 pm)
Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 30, 2007 9:54 pm) Francis Bacon invented the modern fuel cell in 1939. As far as I know NASA was not even in anyone's imagination yet. Its hard to be a pioneer in someting when you don't even exist. Read a little then feel free to make comments. As Kipling said: "There is no worse sin than ignorance" and non as blind as those that will not see Replies to this message: stevedebi (Dec 03, 2007 12:06 pm)
#15 of 27 ...... by autovehicles Dec 02, 2007 (1:36 pm)
..... Very bulky, this will keep that aerodynamics from making this enviroment friendly, I think its to big and bulky.
#16 of 27 Re: I just love the ENVY! [6sptl] by stevedebi Dec 03, 2007 (12:06 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Dec 01, 2007 2:42 pm) "Francis Bacon" I've read a lot of Francis Bacon, but he lived in the 17th century... Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I will "feel free to make comments" as much as I like, preferably without any sly comments attached. I think that NASA was the pioneer of using the fuel cell in a meaningful way.
#17 of 27 It's not a magical cure-all. by solaristhegoal Dec 04, 2007 (2:09 pm)
Here is a simple reason not to think hydrogen fuel cells are 100% clean or anything. Hydrogen is produced from methane, a fossil fuel, via SMR. This results in carbon monoxide, a greenhouse gas. CH4 + H2O --> CO + 3H2 Granted an FCX produces a whole lot less (over 6 times less) carbon monoxide indirectly as carbon dioxide (both greenhouse gases) produced by a 30mpg gas-powered car. So it's a nice step. Replies to this message: 6sptl (Dec 07, 2007 1:57 pm) gagrice (Dec 07, 2007 4:45 pm) varmint (Dec 10, 2007 2:58 pm)