Article Comments - 2009 Honda FCX Clarity First Drive

27 messages, Last post on Oct 23, 2008 at 1:29 PM

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What is this discussion about? Honda FCX, Alternative Fuels, Hybrid Cars, Sedan

First Drive: 2009 Honda FCX Clarity - The 2009 Honda FCX Clarity is fun to drive and also fun to be seen in. Best of all, the hydrogen fuel-cell sedan gets you where you want to go without burning a drop of gasoline. (more)

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#12 of 27 Golly by varmint Nov 30, 2007 (9:34 pm)
Lots of gunk here. Why doesn't Honda build a hybrid version of this car? Well... I hate to answer a question with another question, but... where are they going to fit the gas engine, gas tank, transmission, and other systems? The FCX was designed around the fuel cell. The nose of the vehicle is far too short to fit both an electric motor and a gas engine. If you made all the changes necessary to convert this car into a gas-electric hybrid, you'd have built the HCH. There's no infrastructure for Hydrogen! Honda is not trying to replace the current gasoline infrastructure. Interviews with their engineers paint a picture where hydrogen, gas-electric hybrids, clean diesels, LNG, and other alternative fuels all have a place on the road. In the case of hydrogen, Honda does not expect all the gas stations to switch over. They expect people to fill up at home using reformed natural gas. They have partnered with another company to build units for exactly that purpose. The units serve dual purposes as they reform natural gas and also heat/power the home. Obviously, not everyone owns a home where they can do this. So, any talk about replacing the entire gasoline infrastructure is just plain silly. Isn't hydrogen reformation dirty? Yes, but not as dirty as burning coal or oil to make electricity or refining oil to make gasoline. Aren't EV cars cleaner? In a perfect world, yes. But only if they get their electricity from a clean source. Frankly, our infrastructure for clean electricity from sources like solar, wind, and nuclear (if you count that as clean) is no more ready for EVs than our infrastructure for hydrogen. Most of our electricity is produced the old fashioned (dirty) way. As a side note, Honda has produced their own remarkably advanced solar panels. More evidence that Honda is not expecting one energy source to dominate the market. Is the Clarity a production vehicle? No. Not yet. They aren't releasing it until 2008. Will it be a production vehicle once 2008 rolls around? Sort of. It will not be a mass-produced vehicle on a typical assembly line. Each unit will be manufactured on an assembly line that is as close as we get to hand-made without getting into coach building. In essence, it'll be mass produced in much the same way that the NSX, Insight, and S2000 are/were mass produced. Is Honda ahead of the rest? The FCX Clarity does not compare with the GM Yukon hybrid any better than a Liebherr T 282 B does with a Prius. If you want to unzip the corporate britches and compare technologies, use the FCX and the GM Sequel. While Honda has done wonders with packaging and the use of a vertical fuel cell stack to extend the range of operating conditions, GM and friends have developed an on-board storage tank which allows them to compress hydrogen at 10,000 psi instead of 5,000. (Toyota has borrowed this technology.) That added storage allows the Sequel - a vehicle about the same size as a Murano or Edge - to achieve a range of 300 miles. That's 30 more than the Accord-sized FCX Clarity. Obviously, both companies are making progress if not in the same directions. That said, I have not read any reports of the FCX Clarity breaking down, overheating, or requiring engineers on board while people drive it. Shawn Church was able to give it a nice little flogging on the turns of Mulholland drive. Meanwhile, the Sequel was forced to stop 3 times (overheating) when Chevy took two of them out for a 300 mile drive with the press. This was not long ago in May of 2007. Although both vehicles completed the 8 hour drive, an engineer rode along with his laptop plugged in to monitor the vehicle's vitals for the whole the trip. Bottom line... GM has prototypes. Honda has a real car. When the FCV Equinox arrives, it will be interesting to see how that stacks up (pardon the pun). Initial drives have been positive. How many is a lot? The plan is for 100 or more. Of course, this FCX will not be for sale in our lifetimes. By the time Honda is ready to mass produce for 100,000 units, they will be on the 7th generation of the FCX program, not the 3rd.
#13 of 27 Re: I just love the ENVY! [6sptl] by stevedebi Nov 30, 2007 (9:54 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Nov 30, 2007 6:21 pm) "Wrong on multiple accounts, " Actually, I was correct on all accounts. My point was the NASA used fuel cells over 40 years ago, and continues to use them - as you yourself noted in your post. They were a pioneer in the technology. If the Honda Fuel Cell vehicle is in production, please let me know where I can go to buy or lease one. The Yukon will be widely available to whoever wants to fork over that much money... Replies to this message: 6sptl (Dec 01, 2007 2:42 pm) stevedebi (Dec 03, 2007 12:06 pm)
#14 of 27 Re: I just love the ENVY! [stevedebi] by 6sptl Dec 01, 2007 (2:42 pm)
Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 30, 2007 9:54 pm) Francis Bacon invented the modern fuel cell in 1939. As far as I know NASA was not even in anyone's imagination yet. Its hard to be a pioneer in someting when you don't even exist. Read a little then feel free to make comments. As Kipling said: "There is no worse sin than ignorance" and non as blind as those that will not see Replies to this message: stevedebi (Dec 03, 2007 12:06 pm)
#15 of 27 ...... by autovehicles Dec 02, 2007 (1:36 pm)
..... Very bulky, this will keep that aerodynamics from making this enviroment friendly, I think its to big and bulky.
#16 of 27 Re: I just love the ENVY! [6sptl] by stevedebi Dec 03, 2007 (12:06 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Dec 01, 2007 2:42 pm) "Francis Bacon" I've read a lot of Francis Bacon, but he lived in the 17th century... Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I will "feel free to make comments" as much as I like, preferably without any sly comments attached. I think that NASA was the pioneer of using the fuel cell in a meaningful way.
#17 of 27 It's not a magical cure-all. by solaristhegoal Dec 04, 2007 (2:09 pm)
Here is a simple reason not to think hydrogen fuel cells are 100% clean or anything. Hydrogen is produced from methane, a fossil fuel, via SMR. This results in carbon monoxide, a greenhouse gas. CH4 + H2O --> CO + 3H2 Granted an FCX produces a whole lot less (over 6 times less) carbon monoxide indirectly as carbon dioxide (both greenhouse gases) produced by a 30mpg gas-powered car. So it's a nice step. Replies to this message: 6sptl (Dec 07, 2007 1:57 pm) gagrice (Dec 07, 2007 4:45 pm) varmint (Dec 10, 2007 2:58 pm)
#18 of 27 Re: It's not a magical cure-all. [solaristhegoal] by 6sptl Dec 07, 2007 (1:57 pm)
Replying to: solaristhegoal (Dec 04, 2007 2:09 pm) Back to chemistry..... H20 + Electricity- H2 + O2. If the electricity is produced from non hydrocarbon sources solar, wind, hydrothermal, hydroelectric or nuclear CO2 emmisions for the entire cycle are exactly ZERO. Replies to this message: gagrice (Dec 07, 2007 4:45 pm) varmint (Dec 10, 2007 2:58 pm)
#19 of 27 Re: It's not a magical cure-all. [6sptl] by gagrice Dec 07, 2007 (4:45 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Dec 07, 2007 1:57 pm) The odds are it will NOT be produced by some clean form of energy unless it is Nuclear. Natural gas passed Nuclear in 2006 for 2nd place on the list after coal with its 50% of all electricity produced. Those 3 account for 89% with Hydro in 4th with 6.5%. We are a LONG way from producing hydrogen in an eco friendly manner. The following sources of electricity for 2006 produced only 2.3% or our total usage. Wood, black liquor, other wood waste, municipal solid waste, landfill gas, sludge waste, agriculture byproducts, other biomass, geothermal, solar thermal, photovoltaic energy, and wind. This hydrogen fuel cell car is not as clean as the much simpler and cheaper Civic GX running on CNG. Hydrogen can be generated from natural gas with approximately 80% efficiency, or other hydrocarbons to a varying degree of efficiency. The hydrocarbon conversion method releases greenhouse gases. Since the production is concentrated in one facility, it is possible to separate the gases and dispose of them properly, for example by injecting them in an oil or gas reservoir (see carbon capture), although this is not currently done in most cases. A carbon dioxide injection project has been started by Norwegian company StatoilHydro in the North Sea, at the Sleipner field. Steam reforming Commercial bulk hydrogen is usually produced by the steam reforming of natural gas. At high temperatures (700–1100 °C), steam (H2O) reacts with methane (CH4) to yield syngas. CH4 + H2O → CO + 3 H2 - 191.7 kJ/mol The heat required to drive the process is generally supplied by burning some portion of the methane. Replies to this message: varmint (Dec 10, 2007 2:58 pm)
#20 of 27 Re: It's not a magical cure-all. [gagrice] by varmint Dec 10, 2007 (2:58 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Dec 07, 2007 4:45 pm) Agreed. We are a long way from producing H2 with a 100% clean process. That said, there used to be two major barriers between making hydrogen a viable automobile fuel.... Lack of infrastructure and lack of a viable car. Honda has come very close to eliminating the second hurdle. That's progress. They deserve a little support for it. Furthermore, even though the current process for producing hydrogen is far from perfect, it appears to be a whole lot better than producing gas and diesel.
#21 of 27 Honda FCX Clarity (2009) by andykhol23 May 26, 2008 (5:52 pm)
[URL]http://www.justmorecars.com/honda/2009-fcx_clarity/[/URL] [IMG]http://www.justmorecars.com/cat_img/honda/2009-fcx_clarity/800x600/honda-fc- x_clarity_2009_800x600_wallpaper_01.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.justmorecars.com/cat_img/honda/2009-fcx_clarity/800x600/honda-fc- x_clarity_2009_800x600_wallpaper_02.jpg[/IMG] Honda FCX Clarity Honda unveiled the FCX Clarity fuel cell vehicle at the Los Angeles Auto Show, announcing plans to begin limited retail marketing of the vehicle in summer 2008. [IMG]http://www.justmorecars.com/cat_img/honda/2009-fcx_clarity/800x600/honda-fc- x_clarity_2009_800x600_wallpaper_04.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.justmorecars.com/cat_img/honda/2009-fcx_clarity/800x600/honda-fc- x_clarity_2009_800x600_wallpaper_06.jpg[/IMG] The FCX Clarity is a next-generation, zero-emissions, hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicle based on the entirely-new Honda V Flow fuel cell platform, and powered by the highly compact, efficient and powerful Honda V Flow fuel cell stack. Featuring tremendous improvements to driving range, power, weight and efficiency - and boasting a low-slung, dynamic and sophisticated appearance, previously unachievable in a fuel cell vehicle - the FCX Clarity marks the significant progress Honda continues to make in advancing the real-world performance and appeal of the hydrogen-powered fuel cell car. "The FCX Clarity is a shining symbol of the progress we've made with fuel cell vehicles and of our belief in the promise of this technology," said Tetsuo Iwamura, American Honda president and CEO. "Step by step, with continuous effort, commitment and focus, we are working to overcome obstacles to the mass-market potential of zero-emissions hydrogen fuel cell automobiles." American Honda plans to lease the FCX Clarity to a limited number of retail consumers in Southern California with the first deliveries taking place in summer 2008. Full details of the lease program will be set closer to launch, but current plans call for a three-year lease term with a price of $600 per month, including maintenance and collision insurance. American Honda is also developing a service infrastructure that provides customers with the best balance of convenience and the highest quality of service. When the FCX Clarity requires periodic maintenance, customers will simply schedule a visit with their local Honda dealer. American Honda will transport the vehicle to their fuel cell service facility, located in the greater Los Angeles area, where all required work will be performed. At the completion of the work, the customer will pick up their car from the dealer. How It Works The FCX Clarity utilizes Honda's V Flow stack in combination with a new compact and efficient lithium ion battery pack and a single hydrogen storage tank to power the vehicle's electric drive motor. The fuel cell stack operates as the vehicle's main power source. Hydrogen combines with atmospheric oxygen in the fuel cell stack, where chemical energy from the reaction is converted into electric power used to propel the vehicle. Additional energy captured through regenerative braking and deceleration is stored in the lithium ion battery pack, and used to supplement power from the fuel cell, when needed. The vehicle's only emission is water. Honda V Flow Fuel Cell Platform The FCX Clarity's revolutionary new V Flow platform packages the ultra-compact, lightweight and powerful Honda V Flow fuel cell stack (65 percent smaller than the previous Honda FC stack) in the vehicle's center tunnel, between the two front seats. Taking advantage of a completely new cell configuration, the vertically-oriented stack achieves an output of 100 kilowatts (kW) (versus 86kW in the current Honda FC stack) with a 50 percent increase in output density by volume (67 percent by mass). Its compact size allows for a more spacious interior and more efficient packaging of other powertrain components, which would otherwise be unattainable in a sleek, low-slung sedan. The FCX Clarity boasts numerous other significant advances in the performance and packaging of Honda fuel cell technology, compared to the current-generation FCX. These include: a 20-percent increase in fuel economy - to the approximate equivalent of 68 mpg2 combined fuel economy (about 2-3 times the fuel economy of a gasoline-powered car, and 1.5 times that of a gasoline-electric hybrid vehicle, of comparable size and performance); a 30-percent increase in vehicle range - to 270 miles; a 25-percent improvement in power-to-weight ratio, in part from an approximate 400-pound reduction in the fuel cell powertrain weight, for superior performance and efficiency despite a substantial increase in overall vehicle size; a 45-percent reduction in the size of the fuel cell powertrain - nearly equivalent, in terms of volume, to a modern gas-electric hybrid powertrain; an advanced new lithium-ion battery pack that is 40 percent lighter and 50 percent smaller than the current-generation FCX's ultra-capacitor; and a single 5,000-psi hydrogen storage tank with 10 percent additional hydrogen capacity than the previous model. FCX Clarity Design More than just a fuel cell vehicle - the FCX Clarity speaks to Honda's vision of the future of automobile design and performance freed from the constraints of conventional powertrain technologies. The FCX Clarity's four-door sedan platform features a short-nose body and spacious cabin with comfortable accommodations for four people and their luggage. Major powertrain components - including the electric motor, fuel cell stack, battery pack and hydrogen tank - have been made more compact and are distributed throughout the vehicle to further optimize space, comfort and total vehicle performance. Advanced Materials and Components In keeping with its theme as an environmentally-advanced automobile, the FCX Clarity features seat upholstery and door linings made from Honda Bio-Fabric - a newly-developed, plant-based material that offers CO2 reductions as an alternative to traditional interior materials, along with outstanding durability and resistance to wear, stretching, and damage from sunlight. Designed to appeal to forward-thinking customers seeking the ultimate in zero-emissions, alternative-fuel vehicle performance, the FCX Clarity is also equipped with a full compliment of advanced safety, comfort and convenience features, including a state-of-the-art navigation system with hydrogen station locations, backup camera, premium audio, climate-controlled seats and Bluetooth™ connectivity. Other improvements, such as shift-by-wire, electric power steering (EPS), and a newly-designed instrument panel with an easy-to-read hydrogen fuel-consumption display, further improve its customer appeal and ease of operation. CO2 Emissions The FCX Clarity's only emission is water. Carbon Dioxide (CO2) emissions come only from the production of hydrogen, which varies by source; however,