Article Comments - Comparison Test: 2007-2008 Sport Sedans

475 messages, Last post on Jul 25, 2008 at 4:41 PM

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What is this discussion about? Cadillac CTS, BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35, Mercedes-Benz 350-Class, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Comparison Test: 2007-2008 Sport Sedans - This is exactly why we gathered this group of sport sedans. That is, to find out if the 2008 Cadillac CTS, 2007 Infiniti G35 Sport, 2008 Lexus IS 350 or 2008 Mercedes-Benz C350 Sport can topple the Bavarian champ — the 2007 BMW 335i. In the spirit of the segment, each car in the test is outfitted with sport package hardware — usually a stiffer suspension and bigger wheels and tires — and an automatic transmission. (more)

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#99 of 475 Re: Where is the TL typeS ???????? [6sptl] by threxx Nov 09, 2007 (1:00 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Nov 08, 2007 6:15 pm) You show an obvious and extreme bias and/or lack of knowledge regarding these cars when you say "the TL-S will outhandle and outrace any of these vehicles". It's simply, factually, and absolutely untrue. Anyone with a realistic handle and experience on these cars will echo that as essentially fact - not even really a question of subjectivities or opinion. The 335i, for example, ran a verified and official 8:26 at Nurburgring. The S2000 (which I'm sure is a quicker track car than the TL-S) ran a best of 8:39, and for reference the Ferrari 360 Modena ran a best of 8:09 meaning the difference between the S2000 and the 335i's best is almost as significant as the difference between the 335i and the Ferrari 360 Modena. Fairly significant. I apologize for comparing the 335i to a S2000 but the fact is I can't even find any verified/usable track times for the TL-S since it seems they're fairly rare to see at a track in the first place... Replies to this message: 6sptl (Nov 09, 2007 9:26 pm) habitat1 (Nov 10, 2007 5:33 am) graphicguy (Nov 10, 2007 8:01 am) and 1 more... circlew (Nov 10, 2007 9:32 am) and 11 more...
#100 of 475 Re: Where is the TL typeS ???????? [habitat1] by taxesquire Nov 09, 2007 (2:02 pm)
Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 09, 2007 11:50 am) I concur with habitat1. I also have an '04 6MT TL with the extra-tight suspension. It's a great car that handles great, but the FWD is limitting.
#101 of 475 Re: Where is the TL typeS ???????? [threxx] by 6sptl Nov 09, 2007 (9:26 pm)
Replying to: threxx (Nov 09, 2007 1:00 pm) Absolutely incorrect, the TL has never run the nurburgring, so what? The TLS will out accelerate the s2000 at any speed, when equipped with summer tires its handling limits (though not its feel) are easily a match to the s2000. I've owned both and can attest to such. The TL's will easily "outnurburg" the S2000 no questions asked. Thus the fact that the 335 can barely outmatch the S on the course means exactly squat. Matter of fact, the s2000, can barely out accelerate the RL, a much maligned car that is significantly slower than the TL. Replies to this message: habitat1 (Nov 10, 2007 5:33 am) graphicguy (Nov 10, 2007 8:01 am) roadburner (Nov 10, 2007 9:16 am) circlew (Nov 10, 2007 9:32 am) pmc4 (Nov 11, 2007 6:41 pm) and 10 more...
#102 of 475 Re: Where is the TL typeS ???????? [6sptl] by habitat1 Nov 10, 2007 (5:33 am)
Replying to: 6sptl (Nov 09, 2007 9:26 pm) You are seriously in need of driving lessons, my friend. And I take back my previous congratulations - until you get those lessons, you shouldn't be driving, let alone owning, a Honda S2000. As a Porsche 911S owner, I have no ego hesitation giving Honda credit and recognizing the S2000 as a legitimate, serious sports car. The best to come out of Japan in decades, perhaps since the NSX. The S2000 may not have sledgehammer torque, but every piece of its ground up, hand assmbled chassis is designed for scalpal like handling. It is in the same racing class and successfully competed against the likes of the Corvette C5 and Boxster S. Check out websites for Laguna Seca, Summitt Point and others for race results. Or watch this for an example of how to drive: Honda S2000 at Laguna. The idea that anyone, current owner, previous owner or non-owner, would ever put a FWD Acura TL-S in the same handling category as an S2000 is so absurd as to be laughable. It dissapoints me to say this, but Acura hasn't taken mainstream performance engineering serious enough to produce a model that can compete in the sports sedan segment, let alone something that could ever compete with a sports car. Try to push the TL-S towards its performance limits and it plows into curves, the steering goes wild under hard acceleration and it exhibits all the weaknesses that a FWD Honda Accord would, just a few mph later. There is nothing remotely fun about going white knuckled to push a TL-S shod with performance tires to the performance levels that come easily and naturally to a RWD 3 series or G35. Hell, I could go out next April and lead the Boston Marathon for the first half mile. Then the meat wagon would haul me off hyperventilating, while the elite athletes blew by, hardly breathing. That's what the TL-S is compared to the 335i. Except the TL-S couldn't even lead for the first half mile. It may be sporty, but it's not remotely close to being a world class athlete. So let's get this straight and call a spade a spade. The TL is a very nice, affordable, gizmo loaded, "sporty" FWD family sedan. The 335i is a serious RWD sports sedan. The S2000 is a serious lightweight sports car. And, please, if you really can't tell the difference, consider some driving lessons and give those S2000 keys to someone more deserving. Replies to this message: graphicguy (Nov 10, 2007 8:01 am) roadburner (Nov 10, 2007 9:16 am) circlew (Nov 10, 2007 9:32 am) pmc4 (Nov 11, 2007 6:41 pm) kdshapiro (Nov 11, 2007 6:50 pm) and 6 more... spiritinthesky (Nov 12, 2007 5:29 am) and 2 more...
#103 of 475 Re: Rice Burner ? [drtravel] by dglassm Nov 10, 2007 (6:51 am)
Replying to: drtravel (Nov 07, 2007 10:51 am) Good question , I guess it depends if you want a car that drives or a car that sits in the dealership waiting for back ordered run flat tires and or fuel pumps that do not work ... The BMW styling is 1980's at best , the reliability sucks and who is going to own 335 after the warranty expires ? The G35 rocket is king , I will take the G35 with sport package any day over the poorly engineered and overpriced 3. And who leads in residual value Infiniti ! http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/10/24/068485.html http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=123235 Replies to this message: kdshapiro (Nov 10, 2007 8:48 am) circlew (Nov 10, 2007 8:51 am)
#104 of 475 Re: Where is the TL typeS ???????? [habitat1] by graphicguy Nov 10, 2007 (8:01 am)
Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 10, 2007 5:33 am) habitat....good post. The TL is a very nice car. I used to own one and actually liked it quite a bit. But, as you point out, it is FWD (albeit probably the best of the FWD breed), and has those inherent limitations. Trying to make a point about any superiority a TL may have when compared to a 335i (or even my 330i), you better not put acceleration or handling into the equation. Using the S2000 as a benchmark to compare the TL to is just silly. Now, if you want to compare feature content, value, resale (although even here, BMW can make a strong case), you'd have a valid basis of comparison. A couple of months ago, I had a neighbor trade in her '07 G35 for an '08 TL-S. To me, that wasn't very smart. But, the deal she got on the TL-S ($500 over invoice), and the interior of the TL (over the G) is what made her swap. That said, she's never going to touch the performance potential of either car. So, to her, it made sense....for the TL's wheels, seats, styling all the bells and whistles. Both were/are nice cars. She's happier with the TL-S. To each their own. Replies to this message: roadburner (Nov 10, 2007 9:16 am)
#105 of 475 Re: Rice Burner ? [dglassm] by kdshapiro Nov 10, 2007 (8:48 am)
Replying to: dglassm (Nov 10, 2007 6:51 am) I guess it depends if you want a car that drives or a car that sits in the dealership waiting for back ordered run flat tires and or fuel pumps that do not work ... Give me a "brake", have you been to the G35 maintenance and repair board. All of these models are recommended by CR, so I'm not sure of what you are alluding to. In addition the 3 series styling has way more character then the G35. If you want the best RWD entry level sedan, it's the 335 period. You can settle for second best and get the G.
#106 of 475 Re: Rice Burner ? [dglassm] by circlew Nov 10, 2007 (8:51 am)
Replying to: dglassm (Nov 10, 2007 6:51 am) Here is my answer based on experience with my 330xi...the dealer experience was phenomenal and the loaners sufficed for every dealer service event tithe a 528i, 335i and 330i to keep me going at no extra cost. That's why I would pay the extra money for the BMW 3'er on top of the fact is is a world class leader in it's vehicle segment. I get my value on many things other than money savings. When it's your time to experience a higher level, you balance it with extra "dinero". Regards, OW
#108 of 475 Re: Where is the TL typeS ???????? [graphicguy] by roadburner Nov 10, 2007 (9:16 am)
Replying to: graphicguy (Nov 10, 2007 8:01 am) Both were/are nice cars. She's happier with the TL-S. To each their own. Sounds like the TL is a car that is better to wear than it is to drive...