Article Comments - Comparison Test: 2007-2008 Sport Sedans

475 messages, Last post on Jul 25, 2008 at 4:41 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Cadillac CTS, BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35, Mercedes-Benz 350-Class, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Comparison Test: 2007-2008 Sport Sedans - This is exactly why we gathered this group of sport sedans. That is, to find out if the 2008 Cadillac CTS, 2007 Infiniti G35 Sport, 2008 Lexus IS 350 or 2008 Mercedes-Benz C350 Sport can topple the Bavarian champ — the 2007 BMW 335i. In the spirit of the segment, each car in the test is outfitted with sport package hardware — usually a stiffer suspension and bigger wheels and tires — and an automatic transmission. (more)

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#406 of 475 Re: KBB resale values for used cars [poorstudent2] by pat HOST Dec 12, 2007 (3:57 pm)
Replying to: poorstudent2 (Dec 12, 2007 1:30 pm) Here's a discussion that covers the cars you've listed: Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans. If you're looking for some help making a decision, check it out. The folks hanging out there will help you. This discussion is about the article linked at the top. Have you read it? What did you think of it?
#407 of 475 I did the homework/analysis for you by nizzo Jan 08, 2008 (8:24 pm)
Ok first of all, to avoid being called a fanboi and all that, I remind you and point out clearly that it was the G35 that won the #1 spot in the test. Well, the reality is, it depends on your priorities, simple as that. Right? And just to make sure everyone is on the same page, I also remind you that every car in the test was with an auto. Now for the fun part, which is that the Editors' Evaluations list had the 335i score #1 in 22 categories...and the G35 only 2... Just look at this page: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=123235/pageId=132- - 209 Here's a partial listing, and these are the categories that don't even have anything to do with performance/drive/feel, lol: Exterior design: BMW #1 Interior Design: BMW #1 Interior materials: BMW #1 Instrument Panel Layout: BMW #1 Interior Control Tactile Feel: BMW #1 Squeaks and rattles: BMW #1 Panel Fitment and Gaps: BMW #1 (tied) Visibility: BMW #1 Cargo/trunk space: BMW #1 (tied) Well well, runflat tire naysayers, would u look at that...the 335i was #1 in both ride comfort and overall comfort as well. Some will say the testers had numb buttocks. Others might claim it's because bmw tuned the suspension with RFTs in mind. Yet others might claim it's cuz they had funky pressures in the test cars' tires. I say "cry more". Here's some commentary I picked out from this latest article: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------- (5) C350 Sport: "It drives well, but there's nothing here that makes us want to get behind the wheel for more." "The Mercedes-Benz C350 Sport reminds you that it's German every second." (4) Lexus IS350: "Not one editor who scored this test was able to find the kind of personal connection with the Lexus that they felt behind the wheel of the top-scoring cars." "Put simply, the Lexus is a fast, well-built sedan that lacks the spirit or value of its more engaging counterparts." "The Lexus IS 350 is ideal for metropolitan commute traffic, when quiet isolation is what you want for most of the day, except for that one challenging off-ramp on the way home from work." (3) Cadillac CTS: "The 2008 Cadillac CTS might just be the best car in the GM stable. " "Inside, the CTS is the best-appointed car in the test." "The Cadillac CTS is hyper-American, better to drive slow than it is to drive fast, yet it has a genuinely terrific down-the-road feel that's great for covering vast distances. " (2) BMW 335i: "Behind the wheel, the 335i is the most intuitive and easy-to-drive car here — not to mention the fastest. It's also the most comfortable. And that's a tough combination to beat." " The 335i also brings home the most recommended ratings, which means we would suggest it to a friend over any other car in the test. It even won our lengthy 31-point evaluation, which appraises everything from control feel to cupholder design." "BMW has learned more from Lexus than we realize, as the 335i's combination of quiet, comfortable resilience with serious speed is what makes this overweight car work so well." (1) Infiniti G35 Sport: "Wins this test because it's outstanding to drive and it gives you the most car for your money." "The Infiniti G35 hands you a great engine, clever chassis concept, big tires and a steering wheel (and not much else), and sometimes that's all you need. " "The G's five-speed tranny not only responds quickest to the throttle, but also has the sharpest, most aggressive gearchanges (with rev-matched downshifts) of any automatic we've ever driven." ^^^^^^^^ Whoa, wtf? I drove an 07 G35 auto...and an 07 335 auto...I recall the difference. Err, without QUESTION the auto in the 335 was by far the impressive one. In fact it was the best auto tranny I've ever had the honor to use. Upshifts in DS mode from 1st to 2nd at high rpm occurred so rapidly with that locked-up torque converter, it jolted the car almost as much as an E46 M3 w/SMG does !! I was floored. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------- For more in-depth discussion, and a "tad" bit of contradictions to this latest comparison test (wink), read their other related articles: 335 vs IS350 http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=120903 335 vs C350 http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=121574 335 vs G35 http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=121462 330 vs A4 http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=106052 330 vs IS350 http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=109021 Finally, as a side note, 2007 calendar year, Jan 1 till Oct (I think) sales of these cars (from the manufacturers): BMW 3-series 117,968 Infiniti G 59,003 MB C-class 49,882 Lexus IS 45,433 Audi A4/S4 36,330 The C-class sales would "probably" be higher if the redesigned car had been available for the entire year like the others. I know that Benz got over 60,000 orders for the new C-class even before it hit the showroom floor. Infiniti deserves all the success it is getting, a great package for the price, but as they always say, u get what u pay for. And two huge thumbs up to CADILLAC for making something truly noteworthy...finally...even though...it still isn't quite up to par. But way better than the past. 2008 will be very interesting for the sales figures. Replies to this message: circlew (Jan 09, 2008 3:57 am) nizzo (Jan 12, 2008 7:26 am) victord1 (Jan 12, 2008 2:40 pm) 150mphclub (Jan 18, 2008 6:58 am) drtravel (Apr 01, 2008 4:43 pm) sjaieve (Apr 01, 2008 7:21 pm)
#408 of 475 Re: I did the homework/analysis for you [nizzo] by circlew Jan 09, 2008 (3:57 am)
Replying to: nizzo (Jan 08, 2008 8:24 pm) If your sales figures are correct, why would more customers opt for the 3'er line than the competition? Badge loyalty? Status Symbol for wearers? Hmmm.... You can call it big and bloated but so are all the other candidates, right? There is just no question in my mind that the extra cash one pays delivers that extra value in the 3. It is a relative judgment for all who are considering these choices. You have to experience each to really know for yourself. It depends on if you like to drive or ride...at the end of the day. Regards, OW Replies to this message: nizzo (Jan 12, 2008 7:26 am)
#409 of 475 buying G35 vs 335 vs CTS by bamaroads Jan 12, 2008 (6:27 am)
My 2 yr lease is up on an 06 G35 6MT. Swung by Infinite dealer the other day to see what was available. New leases aren't as attractive as my current (money factor and residual) so looks like going the acquisition route. G35S loaded w/sticker at $38.6 k or so was around $37.1k with negligible negotiation. Drove the 335 yesterday (auto and not sport). Sport and premium and metallic stickers at $44.2k. No idea if will negotiate. Going back today. Plus, will drive the CTS today. I only drive stick shifts. Love shifting. I've love my G35. But I've never warmed up to engine noise when on the throttle. The 335 is super smooth. Noted big difference when exiting highway and hit pothole. What composure in the BMW. And the engine... ohhh man was power sweet. So, right now, I'm struggling with the extra $7k. I give up Nav and hard drive and cruise range (what's with BMWs and little gas tanks?). But I gain super smooth. Is super smooth worth $7k to me? Now, the 4 yr maintenance deal is a deal. Plus the bimmer dealer is in town. For Infiniti I have to drive 63 miles. The CTS: when it comes to shoes and furniture and tools I'm a fanatic about buying USA. But cars? Therein lies my interest in the CTS. I figure with the CTS I get premium highway ride (I don't think I'd get a stick shift on a Caddy). Plus, nothing like supporting good ol' Made in USA. But, like I said, haven't drove it yet. Bottom line for me so far: G35 is best value and super car but dang... the BMW is a sweet ride. If I can get BMW sales to work on price some... we'll see. And for fun, I want to give the CTS a spin. And I'm presuming GM will swing deals. If not, no way would I pay sticker for a GM car. cheers all, bamaroads Replies to this message: habitat1 (Jan 12, 2008 7:08 am) bamaroads (Jan 12, 2008 7:33 am) habitat1 (Jan 13, 2008 9:26 am) and 1 more... nizzo (Jan 12, 2008 7:31 am) bamaroads (Jan 12, 2008 7:40 am) gooddeal2 (Jan 12, 2008 3:40 pm)
#410 of 475 Re: buying G35 vs 335 vs CTS [bamaroads] by habitat1 Jan 12, 2008 (7:08 am)
Replying to: bamaroads (Jan 12, 2008 6:27 am) I take it you propbably don't have enough time or the inclination, but a former business partner is picking up a 2008 535i via. European Delivery for $1,500 over the ED invoice price. that works out to about $1,500 under US Invoice and around $5,500 under MSRP. I'm not sure what options he is getting or what the actual MSRP was, but he said the process has been painless. Also, the total time to go the ED route was only about 3 weeks longer than custom oredering a car for US delivery through his dealer (and at a $4,000 higher cost). He does have an old Honda that he can drive until the car arrives in Baltimore. If you have the time and frequent flyer miles, it may be worth looking into. But even absent the ED discounts, you should be able to get at least $2k off the 335i making that difference more like $5k. At that point, I would have a tough time not picking the 335i. Replies to this message: bamaroads (Jan 12, 2008 7:33 am) habitat1 (Jan 13, 2008 9:26 am) bamaroads (Jan 26, 2008 6:54 am)
#411 of 475 Re: I did the homework/analysis for you [circlew] by nizzo Jan 12, 2008 (7:26 am)
Replying to: circlew (Jan 09, 2008 3:57 am) Circlew, who was calling bimmers big and bloated? I surely wouldn't. They're selling like hotcakes cuz they are by far the best package, doing nothing bad and many superior. The bmw factories are running near 100% capacity and orders are in queue for 3-4 months on avg, that's how crazy the demand is. Fyi the current 5series is now officially the best-selling 5 series model of all time. That's a tall order given that unlike the older gen Japanese competitors or Audis, 5series have always sold very well. Current 7 series long ago was the best selling model yet (replacement due next year). X5, forget about it, runaway success...
#412 of 475 Re: buying G35 vs 335 vs CTS [bamaroads] by nizzo Jan 12, 2008 (7:31 am)
Replying to: bamaroads (Jan 12, 2008 6:27 am) bamaroads, The smoothness and refinement of the 335i over your competing products under your review are certainly not the only qualities that you will find superior. Spend a bit more time in the car, and I promise you will realize how much better they are. Utter composure at any speed. They feel better the fast you go. Superior stability control system. Superior steering, tranny, and brake feel. Superior leather and trim quality (and smell, hehe). Superior resale value. By far and away the best handling in the class and then some. Replies to this message: bamaroads (Jan 12, 2008 7:40 am) gooddeal2 (Jan 12, 2008 3:40 pm)
#413 of 475 Re: buying G35 vs 335 vs CTS [habitat1] by bamaroads Jan 12, 2008 (7:33 am)
Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 12, 2008 7:08 am) I appreciate the comment on the $5k. Irony is I'm heading over to Dussledorf next week on business. Had it even crossed my mind... But you're right about time and inclination. Plus the pricey euro and Germany in winter...The BMW sales guy was looking at production line up (?) when we spec'd out car I would want. Claimed it would be 2nd week Feb production and delivery by end of March. Perfect timing for my lease end though seams tight. Maybe I could negotiate a loaner car if had to wait longer. I figured having a car presold is as good as selling one off the lot for dealer and would be willing to negotiate?? Or am I better off just scouring in state inventories?? Like I said, I've never dealt with BMW dealer before. Replies to this message: habitat1 (Jan 13, 2008 9:26 am) bamaroads (Jan 26, 2008 6:54 am)
#414 of 475 Re: buying G35 vs 335 vs CTS [nizzo] by bamaroads Jan 12, 2008 (7:40 am)
Replying to: nizzo (Jan 12, 2008 7:31 am) nizzo, Yea, I'd have to agree even given just 15 minutes driving the 335. Extra $5-7k in my pocket though and I can can pick up a sweet new Gibson with robotuners and and handwired amp. Or just plow into an S&P 500 index fund. Agree with everything you posted plus make note that major difference to me is that the G35 engine noise under throttle is simply not a great sound. Yea, get's you up to speed quickly but... bama'
#415 of 475 Re: I did the homework/analysis for you [nizzo] by victord1 Jan 12, 2008 (2:40 pm)
Replying to: nizzo (Jan 08, 2008 8:24 pm) BMW 3-series 117,968 Infiniti G 59,003 Are those numbers for the G35 and 335i sedans only????? After all, those are the two specific sedans we're talking about here.