Last post on Oct 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM
You are in the Honda Accord
What is this discussion about?
Honda Accord, Transmission, Sedan
#2367 of 2713 Re: EX-L Coupe V6 (VCM) - OMG! [thegraduate]
Mar 29, 2010 (1:55 pm)
Its true that my 1995 Maxima was only 190 HP and my 2002 CLK320 215, but they are old tech cars and more importantly what I will call "full time six cylinder.
These cars transmissions were smooth, powerful and pretty darn fast. They also got more MPG than they were rated. The Accord is 268hp, but most of the time the ECO light goes on and then I'm only sending gas to three or four cylinders. Honda used to be famous for surpassing EPA estimates, I guess not anymore.
The car is faster off the line, but is far, far worse on the highway. The transmission is not smooth at all in comparison and the wind and road noise is far worse.
I would think a 2010 model should outperform comparable 1995 and 2002 cars is pretty much all categories, especially gas with the VCM feature.
#2368 of 2713 Re: EX-L Coupe V6 (VCM) - OMG! [dinofl]
Mar 29, 2010 (2:13 pm)
To be fair, I'm not arguing against you. I agree that these days we should do better than we did 10 years ago on gas. Problem is, increased safety standards mean more airbags, more control systems, all of which equal increased weight. I'd wager that your Maxima barely weighs 3,000 lbs, while the new Accord is closing in on 3,700 lbs, in top trim. That's a 20%+ weight gain.
As far as noise goes, Hondas have always been noisier than comparable Nissans and Toyotas, and certainly noisier than a Mercedes. That's not different from Accords of the 90s to today (trust me, I have a '96 and an '06).
#2369 of 2713 VCM is just part of the problem
Mar 29, 2010 (2:54 pm)
VCM kept me from buying another Accord..and that's not good! We represent the steady business Honda has lost... After 6 Honda Accords in the last 6 years (One for me >one for my wife as we trade every two years) I just feel the Accord has become a good Average car and nothing more. They lost their edge by taking away the choice on VCM on not. (v6s)and they actually removed the LED Tail lights as well as other interior lighting and the ability to unlock the rear seat back with the key. Poor quality leather is another issue on the new Accords! As I said earlier, in my case, Honda is competing with the turbine smooth 2007 V6s we had. The 2008-2010 inV6 is not even close in comparison and the tire noise is ever present!
The absence of a six speed auto was another issue and yes, Honda needs to add the driver selectable gear control as well. I have seen this car manufacturer dance before when we were General Motors buyers. Honda seems to be taking it's past customers for granted. Why does it take Hyundai Sonata to bring excitement to this market segment?(No I did not buy one but they sure look great!)
I feel for the Honda service writers as they cannot show you any empathy since it might be construed as recognition of the VCM issue. When you start hearing the line"That's the way it is" or the implication that you should "Get used to it" it's time to look else where! Having a noise cancelling feature on the radio is nothing short of a band aid fix for an inherently rough engine noise. There are many other V6s out there that do just as well on gas with the same horsepower and no VCM!
Honda did change their marketing speil from "Seamless VCM" in the 2008 materials to "Nearly seamless VCM" on their 2009/2010 brochures.
I'm happy to hear some of you are "getting used to it" ..We just decided to move on to something else..
#2370 of 2713 Re: VCM is just part of the problem [robtroxel]
Mar 29, 2010 (3:18 pm)
Hey, to each his own. No one car will please everyone.
A couple of things. Yes, they got rid of the LED tailights. I don't know why but so nobody has said anything about it. It's one of those "who cares?" things. Obviously you do care. They also got rid of the overhead light that actually annoyed some people who would put tape over it.
I'm still trying to figure out why Honda should add another speed to their silky smooth transmissions that work so well. Why not seven speeds or ten?
A Service Advisor should have empathy. That's psrt of the job. It's hard though when they can't detect a problem.
I do agree that "seamless" was probably a bad word. " Nearly seamless" is much better but It sounds like for a few "nearly" isn't seamless enough.
I don't know what you replaced your Accord with but I hope it meets your expectations.
#2371 of 2713 Not many options for those with "issues"
Mar 29, 2010 (3:31 pm)
Rob, I don't blame you for looking elsewhere if you didn't like the VCM in the car you test drove. That's EXACTLY what you should do. It seems that many others who now have "issues" and "problems" with their VCMs did not take long test drives if they took any test drive at all, which makes no sense at all to me. In today's bizarre automotive business environment, that's simply asking for trouble.
Our new 2010 EX-L V6 in the second Honda we have had with VCM and I cannot detect any changes whatsoever while driving. For my wife and I, VCM is indeed "seamless." It was seamless in our 2008 Odyssey too.
I have a 30+ mile test drive route that I always drive when I have finally decided on one specific car to buy. Ten miles of in-town streets, 10+ miles of country back roads and 10 miles of freeway 75+ mph. Trust me, any driveability/noise issues show up over this distance. Plus, the salesman doesn't go along, and the radio is turned off. I am listening to & feeling out the car and I don't want distractions.
I can emphasize with those who have VCM issues, but they need to understand that none of us here on this forum can help them in any way. Obviously, Honda isn't helping them. Worst case is they will need to dump their cars and take the financial hits if they can't live with it. It's a shame, but obviously a problem that only a few people have, and they simply shouldn't have bought the Accord.
#2372 of 2713 Re: After all of this time... [isellhondas]
Mar 29, 2010 (4:18 pm)
Actually, if memory serves me -- and no, I don't have time to scroll through 2 years of posts, though with the search feature, it wouldn't take me (and probably didn't take the other poster) much time -- you have made the same substantive posts on 3-4 if not more occasions (typically, whenever there is heavier volume of postings on this thread). On most if not all of those occasions you have been reprimanded ("blasted" in your words) by the moderators for belittling those who have stated they noticed the VCM operation or for strongly suggesting that they are wrong and do not know what they are talking about. So, please do not play the victim.
Full disclosure: I had a 2008 V-6 Honda, felt the same things others are posting about, but thought the issue got ameliorated (but not totally resolved) by a software patch about 8-9 months after I bought the car; subsequently sold the car for a variety of other reasons pretty much unrelated to the VCM issue (if in fact it is a VCM issue). I was not dissatisfied with the car, but also didn't feel it lived up to its hype.
#2373 of 2713 Re: After all of this time... [jam1000]
Mar 29, 2010 (5:09 pm)
No, I don't think I belittled anyone or "strongly suggested " they were wrong.
I only said that I hadn't heard anything from my vantage point and that is still the case.
I'm just trying to figure out what exactly people are hearing and feeling.
Obviously there must be "something" going on with some cars.
#2374 of 2713 Re: After all of this time... [isellhondas]
Mar 29, 2010 (6:12 pm)
Here's the thing on Honda tranny. There are too many complaints about problems with it on the blogs. Now they may all be resolved, but the general perception is not one of an outstanding tranny, right or wrong. Holding on to it isn't any smarter than GM still offering its 4 speed auto on some of its V8's. Honda's don't seem as unique any more. Everyone is catching up. If Honda is going to keep their game and edge down the road, as well as a premium price, they've got to get back to their modern tech image. At one time people considered an Accord to be sort of a poor man's BMW on the cheap. That is changing and you can't rest on Camry's current predicament, because it will change down the road, just as the perception of some of the new domestics are changing. Modern cars have more advanced trannies, whether 6 speed (or greater) or CVT. Even baseline Chevy's and Ford's have them now.
#2375 of 2713 Re: After all of this time... [berri]
Mar 29, 2010 (7:55 pm)
Things always get blown out of proportion in the blogs but Honda did have some problem transmissions. These were mostly on Odysseys built before 2005. A small percentage had troubles but still, uncharastic for Honda. Honda went WAY beyond the normak warranty period to make things right.
Then some of the 2007 Odysseys had problems with their torque converters that wouild cause a "juddering" at certain speeds. Again, Honda is on top of this and we are fixing the affected cars.
A more "advanced" transmission isn't less likely to have issues and adding extra gears dopesn't make a transmission "better".
Honda uses some CVT transmissions now but I wouldn't call them "better" in any way, just different. And this is nothing new. in 1948 Buick started using the Dynaflow automatics which worked the same way.
But, you are right. Honda can't rest on it's laurels. The market is fickle and it can trun quickly. I' m sure they are well aware of this and take whatever it takes to be on the forefront.
#2376 of 2713 Re: After all of this time... [isellhondas]
Mar 30, 2010 (6:37 am)
Hard to believe you sell Hondas and never heard of VCM problems.
Here is a report straight from Wikipedia about Honda Odyssey owners complaining about VCM. Gas mileage problems too. Here are the quotes and the link:
- "Owners have reported shuddering from VCM operation, engine mount and/or torque converter issues"
- Consumer Reports noted in the 2005 auto issue that Odyssey was one of the vehicles that recorded gas mileage that was much lower than EPA ratings.
Seems they carried this awesome technology over to my V6 coupe.