Last post on Oct 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM
You are in the Honda Accord
What is this discussion about?
Honda Accord, Transmission, Sedan
#1423 of 2715 Re: VCM = less power [ljgbjg]
May 13, 2008 (9:51 am)
I have two automatic Honda Accord sedans. I'm not sure why the 6-speed coupe keeps coming up?
The dealer confirmed that simply depressing the accelerator to the floor will not invoke a downshift
This is the statement I have a hard time with. In fact, in the owner's manual of my 1996 Accord, it states that "flooring the accelerator" will cause a drop in gears.
No - I did not tell the dealer that and that is not what I said.
Except that it is what you said, and I quote:
I called to the engine room for power while cruising at about 50 in ECO mode when I pressed the accelerator to the floor and there was nothing there - no downshift - no power
This was your original statement, and is what I was basing my post on. If that original statement wasn't true, then I am REALLY confused!
I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm picking on your dealer because I truly believe flooring a car at 50 should drop you to at least third, regardless of how quickly the pedal is pressed (instantly, or five seconds to the floor). Just giving it "some" gas won't do the same thing as flooring it.
#1424 of 2715 Re: VCM = less power [thegraduate]
May 13, 2008 (10:43 am)
Ok, let's clear some things up here because you ARE confused.
First, we are talking about a 2008 Accord Sedan with VCM here. No offense, but because you reference earlier models not equipped with VCM, you cannot possibly relate to our driving experiences. Why references of comparison to the 6 spd MT coupe? Because it is the only 2008 V6 without VCM.
Second, I quote myself:
"...when I pressed the accelerator to the floor and there was nothing there - no downshift - no power. I took my foot completely OFF the accelerator and slammed it to the floor - ONLY then did it downshift and I get some passing power. The initial reluctance to downshift and respond to a call for power was downright dangerous."
"The dealer confirmed that simply depressing the accelerator to the floor will not invoke a downshift"
That is correct - I don't care what the manual says for your earlier Hondas. With THIS car, you cannot simply depress the accelerator - you need to punch it like dpmeersman said. Simply depressing the accelerator to the floor will merely cause it to go out of ECO and into the V6 mode, but does not cause a downshift out of 5th gear overdrive, and the responsive burst of speed and power I was looking for.
I am sorry for your being confused - neither I nor dpmeersman can explain it any more clearly I am afraid. He/she certainly understands what I am talking about - because he/she is a fellow VCM owner. And I want to make this perfectly clear too - I am not bashing anything - I like my car - simply pointing out that the VCM engine/transmission behaves differently under certain circumstances than previous Hondas, does lack about 30 lbs ft of mid range torque veersus the 6 speed MT car without VCM, and explains in part the Edmund's editor's comments in the long term road test, the genesis of my whole thread of posts, about a seeming lack of power in the 2008 V6 Sedan.
#1425 of 2715 Re: VCM = less power [ljgbjg]
May 13, 2008 (11:42 am)
How hard are you "pressing" that accelerator? I mean, this is all relative. If you are in a certain speed and you are just "pressing" the accelerator, the ECM will not downshift due to your vehicle speed sensor. Your speed sensor is probably telling your ECM that the corresponding transmission gear is sufficient enough for your engine powerband hence, no downshift. FYI, there is always a corresponding speed and powerband to each of your tranny's gear. And this is all true for any make of vehicle. Not only with VCM equipped Accord.
#1426 of 2715 Flooring Throttle = Dowshift [yrmac]
May 13, 2008 (11:49 am)
yrmac, he or she says they floored the throttle at 50 MPH and got no downshift.
If it is really going to the floor as you say, ljgbjg, your car should downshift; period. Whether at 35 MPH or 85 MPH, a downshift should occur when the throttle is floored. I've completely understood ljgbjg's and d-man's posts, for the record. I understand you are saying when you floor it quickly it does downshift, and when flooring it more slowly it doesn't. What I am saying is that it is unsafe for it to do so - and if your service advisor was mine, he wouldn't be for long.
I'd still talk to another dealer, if you are flooring it (regardless of how quickly you depress the pedal - doesn't matter) and get no downshift.
#1427 of 2715 Re: VCM = less power [yrmac]
May 13, 2008 (12:02 pm)
OMG - I am sorry I said anything to get lectures and these types of questions about my driving. How dare you all? It was a simple statement - how much clearer can it be. dpmeersman tried it and he had the same thing happen with his 2008 Accord V6 w/VCM. The Edmunds editor commented on the car's seeming lack of power. That is how this all got started.
You can lecture all you want, and that IS what you are doing, and all I have to say is keep it to yourself. geesh - I am a 60 year old man who has owned and driven many a car, including exotic sports cars, and I am being told how a car is supposed to perform by people who don't even know me???? Golly gee whiz - thanks y'all!! FYI, I called two other dealers and got the same response so Honda is either jerking me around or they know their car and how it operates. Yes, I KNOW other cars will downshift if the accelerator is merely depressed to the floor - DUH! - I think I have owned and driven a few. That is NOT how THIS engine/drivetrain/transmission performs - and it IS unique - name one other car with a 6-4-3 VCM operation and grade logic transmission. I have had enough of this insulting exchange. I was trying to be helpful pointing out an experience I had because the lack of accelerative response in an emergency situation could be fatal. This car must be punched hard to get this drivetrain to respond. That is all I was trying to do - warn people and then I get questions like how hard did you depress it??? Maybe you were exaggerating? OWN one before you can say anything about one. Some of you do not qualify to comment at all.
#1428 of 2715 Re: VCM = less power [ljgbjg]
May 13, 2008 (12:20 pm)
Yes, I KNOW other cars will downshift if the accelerator is merely depressed to the floor - DUH! - I think I have owned and driven a few. That is NOT how THIS engine/drivetrain/transmission performs - and it IS unique - name one other car with a 6-4-3 VCM operation and grade logic transmission.
And I'll I have tried to do is get you to try a different service department. I haven't argued that this is unsafe - I whole heartedly agree. One has to ask questions when they don't understand the first statement. When I said you "floored it and it didn't downshift," you responded saying "that's not what I said." This led to my confusion. I only asked because I was so surprised and wanted to know that this is what you told your dealer for sure. Then you said you didn't. Now you say you did floor it. See why there's confusion on my end?
And, the 2008 Honda Odyssey has the same 6-4-3 VCM operation and grade logic transmission, to answer your challenge.
OWN one before you can say anything about one. Some of you do not qualify to comment at all.
The host makes that decision sir, not you.
In the end, I'd still suggest you visit another dealer. Let out your hostilities on them, not us. I've just been trying to understand your problem concisely, and it has been met with this last post you have made (#1427).
#1429 of 2715 Re: VCM = less power [thegraduate]
May 13, 2008 (12:44 pm)
"See why there's confusion on my end?"
Oh, believe me I do and it has nothing to do with how I have expressed myself.
And to demonstrate my point - you answer my challenge "name one other car with a 6-4-3 VCM operation" with the Odyssey (and only on the touring edition) - not a car, a HONDA minivan. Your lack of precision with the language, sir, is what causes your inability to understand. You cannot grasp the distinction between depressing the accelerator and punching it, which point I have made ad nauseum.
" OWN one before you can say anything about one. Some of you do not qualify to comment at all." You are accurate in your response - the host makes that decision. However , sir, everyone else here can take what you say with a grain of salt since you do not own a 2008 Accord with VCM - in my book you are not qualified to comment at all about its operation. Would be like me trying to advise someone who owned a Bugatti Veyron how their car is supposed to operate.
It really takes a lot of chutzpah for a non-VCM owner to come on here and advise an experienced owner how their car is supposed to operate and even in the face of the unanimous opinion of three Honda service departments, contend that the service departments are wrong.
The only "hostilities" I have arise when I am addressed as an idiot with the incredibly insulting questions that have been posed of me. I have no hostilities to take out on a dealer - no dealer has insulted me. End of conversation.
#1430 of 2715 Re: VCM = less power [ljgbjg]
May 13, 2008 (1:15 pm)
I had an eighty mile round tripper this morning for jury duty and I was going to do the gradual throttle test again but to much traffic and construction. Besides I've been trying to behave myself until I get the oil changed and tires rotated tomorrow.
I gotta wonder what our wives comments would be after reading some of the long threads like this one. I can assure you there would be an intervention on my behalf if this heated discourse were say at a family cookout. But hey boys will be boys, and Accord owners are a passionate lot.
This car does have characteristics unlike any other I've driven, and I'm 52 years old. I wonder if Honda doesn't have some mild reprogramming in store for us during our first service call. I'll find out soon enough. In light of all this I would buy the car again, and while it may not have the most get up and go, be it thru gradual increases in speed our full on mashing it if we aren't careful out there with all the traffic on the roads these days we could pose a danger either to ourselves or others and at the very least our wallets thru insurance surcharges.
#1431 of 2715 Re: VCM = less power [dpmeersman]
May 13, 2008 (1:20 pm)
I wonder if Honda doesn't have some mild reprogramming in store for us during our first service call.
I'd sure hope so with the transmission issue (not downshifting).
#1432 of 2715 Re: VCM = less power [dpmeersman]
May 13, 2008 (1:48 pm)
Thank you for your intelligent, well considered, and insightful post dpmeersman. And you are right about the wives - mine sometimes is annoyed with my presence on these boards, but I tell her it is interesting - and it usually is when I find myself in an exchange with someone like yourself. She would not be happy with the exchange I have otherwise had. You never do know who you are involved with here - anything they say can be totally bogus - who would ever know? In your case, you know whereof I speak as a fellow owner, and I do know you are an owner from your own other explanations of your VCM experiences as I remember them from your earlier postings! Perhaps we need to start a Honda VCM club where VCM owners can exchange experiences, thoughts on driving techniques, etc.
I am not in the habit of having to literally stomp on an accelerator to get a transmission to downshift, but instead, like you, to simply press it to the floor and get the desired response - like Scotty, full warp speed!!! Not good when there is a delay in response.
Would I buy the car again? Perhaps, but not without having given the Camry a shot and test driven one, and not bought the Accord on blind faith in Honda engineeers. Its acceleration is quicker, there are no VCM issues, it has a 6 speed tranny, turns lower RPMS/mph in top gear, and according to the EPA, I believe you only give up 1 MPG versus the Accord with VCM. The VCM V6 is reasonably quick when needed, but I think the editor of Edmunds got it right when he said it was lacking in power - it IS a V6, and a Honda V6 to boot - which historically have actually had better than advertised HP.
You are right about driving this car with one further comment - I believe it is different enough in its responsiveness from past experiences with non-VCM engines that we COULD pose a danger to ourselves or others - making a move to pass someone with rapidly moving traffic coming up from behind, only to call to the engine room for MORE POWER and have the transmission do what mine did! Not a good thing. And I do generally, unfortunately (but it is the nature of llving in the NYC metropolitan area), drive in heavy traffic having to make quick acceleration and deceleration moves. Looks like I simply have to adjust my driving style to the quirks of the car! Otherwise, like I said - the annoying cruising behavior is either gone or become unnoticeable because of my becoming accustomed to it - but I don't think the latter is the case because my wife no longer notices it either. She loves the car and thinks it was plenty of power. Guess I am like Tim "The Toolman" Taylor when it comes to power - never enough!! I wish it were more immediately responsive, but I'll adjust. Or maybe as you suggest, Honda has some secret service adjustment they'll perform when we take it in for that first servicing!