Last post on Oct 23, 2012 at 6:25 PM
You are in the Honda Accord
What is this discussion about?
Honda Accord, Transmission, Sedan
#1182 of 2715 Honda Press Release
Mar 20, 2008 (9:03 am)
American Honda just released a major press announcement that states that VCM will be installed on all Honda lawnmowers, power generators, and scooters by model year 2010. Applications for the Honda Advanced Compact Business Jet, as well as for the Honda ASIMO Humanoid Robot, are also under analysis.
At a press conference at the New York Auto Show, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui indicated, "Variable Cylinder Management is the single greatest technological advancement since the advent of the CVCC engine in the 1976 Accord. We are proud to announce that VCM will be available as a standard feature on all of our power products within the next 4 years. R&D has begun for the next generation of the Hondajet Advanced Compact Business Jet to be released in 2014, and we plan to offer VCM on the next ASIMO Humanoid Robot. ASIMO tends to rattle too much when he laughs at my bad jokes. I trust that VCM will help him relax and calm down a little."
#1183 of 2715 Re: Honda Press Release [cstiles]
Mar 20, 2008 (9:12 am)
Aren't you about 12 days early with this?
#1184 of 2715 Re: Honda Press Release [cstiles]
Mar 20, 2008 (9:25 am)
#1185 of 2715 Re: New owner VCM issues [henrychinaski]
Mar 20, 2008 (12:48 pm)
I have experienced some of what you have mentioned in your post regarding the downshift. However, I do not believe that has anything to do with the VCM. I could be wrong, though.
#1186 of 2715 Re: New owner VCM issues [henrychinaski]
Mar 20, 2008 (1:31 pm)
"... every other automatic transmission car in the universe rides smoother than mine new one ..."
Bingo. I agree with Parviz that it may not be VCM, but instead the transmission shift points. Or perhaps some changes they made in the transmission shift points to accommodate the VCM.
It's good for you that you're prepared to live with it, b/c when I discussed this with the American Honda CSR, he said it's normal, end of story.
#1187 of 2715 VCM Trip to dealer
Mar 20, 2008 (5:06 pm)
Well I gave in and took my car back to the dealer today. Since the dealer I bought the car from is an hour away, I went to the local dealer instead.
First thing the SM tells me when I arrive is that if there is an issue with the car that needs to be fixed, I will have to take it back to the dealer I bought it from. Any car with less than 3000 miles (mine has 749) has to be fixed by the originating dealer due to some finance issue relate to the check list they should have followed when the car was pulled off the truck. (I have never heard of this??????) I did not argue, I figured I would deal with that later.
So he gets a tech and we take a test drive. Before the drive, I tell him (the tech) the issues that I am having with the VCM. I could tell by his eyes and facial expression this was not new to him. As it turns out, they get a couple of cars a month returning because of the VCM issue. We take the test drive and the car performed as it normally does for me. He was not surprised but said my car was better than most (what does that say about the other cars????).
We return and he determines that it is working as it should (I assumed that would be the answer. I don't believe anything is broken, it's just a poor design) and there is nothing they can do (surprise surprise) So we chat a little more and he says that "the car is not seamless, and unnoticeable to the user". "Every Accord V6 does the same thing as mine". "The difference is the driver". "Some are more in tune with their car like me, and some people are in la la land and don't know anything is going on under the hood". "Honda should have never put that seamless information in their info" (no kidding). He said the older Odysseys are worse (I don't own one so I can't verify that). Since the Odysseys have had the VCM issues for years and Honda has never fixed them, don't expect a fix on these either. On a good note, he has not seen any engine problems because of the VCM (I did not ask about the Odyssey tranny issues).
So that puts me back to square one. When the Honda Case Mgr calls me back after talking to the dealer, I'm sure I'll get the "there's nothing we can do" answer and that will be it. And since the Odyssey has never been fixed, I would not expect a fix on this either. I'm very disappointed. I spent alot of money and am not happy with the car. Now I have to start the whole test drive/email/price neg thing again on a different car.
On a side note, when the Honda Case Mgr did ask me what I wanted Honda to do, I said fix the car. Since that does not look good now, has anyone negotiated anything else in a situation like this, like an extended warranty, or a car buy back with Honda?
#1188 of 2715 Re: VCM Trip to dealer [sunnfun]
Mar 20, 2008 (5:19 pm)
He said the older Odysseys are worse (I don't own one so I can't verify that). Since the Odysseys have had the VCM issues for years and Honda has never fixed them, don't expect a fix on these either.
Having ridden in (but not driven) a 2005 EX-L Odyssey (brand new with less than 2k miles at the time) on a short trip from Birmingham to Tuscaloosa, AL, I can say that I felt nothing; although I did look at the ECO light to try and see when it changed. Never noticed a vibration or surge.
The owner of that Odyssey is a mechanic that fixes up old sports cars (a '62 Corvette and a Porsche 914, to name the most recent ones). He's never mentioned a problem with it, and WE recommended the Honda dealer to them, so i feel like we'd have heard something by now if they had issues with it.
I say all that to say this: it sounds like the Accord VCM has more issues than the Odyssey VCM based on personal experience with an Odyssey, and what I've read about the Accord. Don't be so sure Honda won't fix it just yet.
#1189 of 2715 Re: VCM Trip to dealer [sunnfun]
Mar 21, 2008 (7:16 am)
That's what I been tellin' you guys. It ain't broke so they can't fix it. At least your Honda tech was that smart. It's perception, and most drivers won't notice/care. Were I in your sit. I would go for a free extended warranty for all drivetrain components for as long as you own the car. I would then plan to drive the car "forever" and get a new engine or tranny free under the warranty, should they fail. Hope this helps.
#1190 of 2715 Re: VCM Trip to dealer [thegraduate]
Mar 21, 2008 (7:20 am)
First off, to keep the record straight (and hopefully prevent any argumentative replies that are off-topic), I "don't have a dog in this race". No 08 Honda Accord V6 or Honda Odyssey minivan with VCM.
But I have owned a GM vehicle with AFM (GM's version of cylinder deactivation technology). It was a 2007 Avalanche (V8). I ordered some GM accessories as part of the purchase of the vehicle, but it came before they did. One of the accessories was a custom exhaust system (mildly loud). Since I got the truck first, I was able to see the difference before and after for the exhaust. One of the unexpected things I noticed was that the V8-V4 changeover was imperceptible to me with the quiet stock exhaust. I was able to tell this because one of the DIC display modes shows the engine mode (V8 or V4). Once the factory exhaust was installed, I was able to tell fairly easily when the engine changed modes, both by sound, and to a much lesser extent, by a very slight change in feel (not a lurching as some have described with their Accords here, though).
This same issue came up on some of the forums I've visited, by other owners of GM products. Some feel the changeover strongly, while others barely notice it at all. That may mean that, evidently like these Accords, different vehicles actually feel it to a greater or lesser extent, or just that some folks are more sensitive to it than others.
But as far as the Odyssey vs. the Accord comparison goes, I'd be willing to bet that the greater mass of the vehicle (with the same engine) results in two mitigating factors as far as the VCM 'noticibility' is concerned:
1. The engine most likely doesn't operate as often or as long in 3/4 cylinder mode (does the Odyssey's version of VCM even do both the other modes?). Much like driving the Accord without the cruise set.
2. The greater mass of the van means that any lurching the engine does is overcome to a greater extent by the vehicle's inertia, effectively masking the engine's effect more than the lighter car will.
In any case, nobody seems to have experienced reliability issues with the GM system, and (Honda's engineering being what it usually is) I doubt it will be any different with your cars. It most likely will come down to whether you notice the changeover, and if you do, whether it's too bothersome to live with or not.
#1191 of 2715 Re: VCM Trip to dealer [sunnfun]
Mar 21, 2008 (7:57 am)
Just got a call back from my Case Mgr (I will say that he is very professional and did call back when he said he would) Basically since the car is within specs, there is nothing they can do or offer to do. So my choices are drive the car or get rid of it. I guess I could escalate this up the Honda Corp ladder and meet with a higher level rep but I don't see anything changing. It's sad they say it's seamless and it's not, as verified by the dealer tech. That seems like fraud to me. I don't know how that would play out in court, nor how long it would take, and in the mean time it does not fix the car. So I guess this weekend I will be test driving new cars again.
On second thought, there is one last avenue, Senior Mgmt. I wonder if the President etc.. know about this? I'll email them and see what happens. It has worked in the past for other issues.