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Automotive News & Views GM News, New Models and Market Share
8456 messages, Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 4:07 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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I don't know what's more shocking, the fact that Mitsu beat out Lexus or that Cadillac shares the basement with Chrysler! 1. Scion 2. Honda 3. Toyota 4. Infiniti 5. Acura 6. Mitsubishi 7. Lexus 8. Hyundai 9. Porsche 10. Mercury 11. Saab 12.Subaru 13. Suzuki 14. Kia 15. Mazda 16. Ford — Middle — 17. Nissan 18. Volvo 19. Buick 20. Lincoln 21. Volkswagen 22. Pontiac 23. Mercedes-Benz 24. Audi 25. Chevrolet 26. BMW 27. Mini 28. GMC 29. Saturn 30. Jeep 31. Dodge 32. Cadillac 33. Chrysler Wonder if the floormat issue is what brought lexus down? 
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Oct 28, 2009 9:12 am) VW for example really is probably middle of the pack and Audi should be behind them. Mercedes has had some very good new car launches though so I would expect them to be ahead of VW. Buick being so far down doesn't make any sense. All of Ford's line up should probably be a few places higher. Scion as number one is complete and utter insanity. Saab ahead of Volvo no freaking way. I sell both new and while they are close the Volvos are almost always better in terms of build quality and reliability. The warranty companies agree with that as they charge nearly exactly the same for the same coverage warranty on a similar Volvo to a similar Saab. A FWD 9-3 warranty costs about the same as a FWD S60 warranty.
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Replying to: circlew (Oct 28, 2009 4:21 am) Funny thing, GMAC, the primary lender to GM And Chrsyler. Sorry about that, not trying to start any conspiracy here but... 
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Replying to: jae5 (Oct 28, 2009 9:33 am)
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Replying to: british_rover (Oct 28, 2009 9:23 am) Weighing a car based upon style and interior and other things is meaningless, because every buyer either likes or hates it. Basing nearly half of their scores on emotional responses just bad methodology and they should know it.(won't even get into other idiocy here like voluntary sampling methods and weighing problems according to a formula they won't publish) Yes, their data never makes any real sense. You're better off by far reading Edmunds or MSN Autos or something like that than CR.
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Replying to: dieselone (Oct 28, 2009 5:04 am) Regards, OW
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Replying to: plekto (Oct 28, 2009 9:52 am) Actually, I remember them doing that to the Ford Crown Vic a few years back. The car scored pretty well in each category (engine, transmission, paint, a/c, brakes, etc) but when it came to the overall score, they rated it low. Their reasoning was that while the car was still fairly reliable, most of the other cars out there were better. It's sort of like putting a fairly smart kid in a class with a bunch of egghead geniuses, and then calling that kid stupid because he scored a 95 on a test when all the others got a 100. One thing I will say in CR's favor though, is that they changed some of their wording. The category that used to be "worse than average", they now call "fair". Which makes sense to me. A car that has a failure rate of 4.9%, IMO, isn't THAT much better than one that has a 9.1% failure rate, but that's the difference between "better than average" and "worse than average/fair". I think a car has to have a ~14%+ failure rate in a category to get "Much worse than average" these days.
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Replying to: british_rover (Oct 28, 2009 9:23 am) CR has been around for decades. And when makers of GM , Ford acknowledge their ratings and try to work on them , it seems you know better than their engineers. And CR has no bias- proven by the fact that Ford has got very good ratings along with Hyundai.  And Ford's rating is not higher because not all its cars are at the top.But they will eventually get better . And why is Scion`s ratings insane?? They are at the top in reliability constantly. And as you have mentioned before - Scion has fewer electronics than LR,so it is more reliable.. Well CR doesn`t compare Scion and LR in the same bracket. It compares cars in the same category. For example - all economy cars, family sedans, Upscale cars,Luxury cars, minivans ,PU`s, SUV's --each in a separate category . It doesn't compare a luxury car to a family sedan. It doesn't compare a luxury SUV to an economy sedan. It compares luxury cars to luxury cars and luxury SUV`s to luxury SUV's. No cross shopping!! So LR is compared to Lexus,MB,BMW etc-- same category-luxury cars. And you say LR has 40 computers- well what about Lexus? Lexus has as much sophisticated tech and computers as any luxury car out there--infact probably more. And yet it is very reliable as compared to MB or LR especially as LR has pathetic reliability year after year . And LR is now owned by India's Tata Motors and not some European maker. The creator of the $2500 Tata Nano owns LR and makes LR. Sheesh !! Paying $45k for an Indian car maker !!!  You dont agree with CR - fine. But to call its ratings insane ,nonsense- is biased and just sounds outright ridiculous !!!
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Replying to: deltheking (Oct 28, 2009 10:44 am) What is this list supposed to represent? Is it supposed to be the most reliable makes from top to Bottom? Is it supposed to be the highest rated makes by CR using all of their metrics from top to bottom? If it is just reliability then sorry they are just wrong. Who knows more about reliability CR, JD Powers, True Delta your Aunt Mildred or the warranty company that has to pay out when something breaks? Obviously the warranty company is the only one with real skin in the game. Sure if CR gets something really wrong they might get a dinged reputation or lose a few subscribers but they won't lose any real revenue. Saab and Volvo should be right on top of each other if this list measures just reliability. Their warranty costs for an apples to apples warranty on an apples to apples car is within a one or two hundred dollars of each other. If it measures reliability in addition to other things then fine it can be set up however CR wants it to.
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Replying to: andre1969 (Oct 28, 2009 10:10 am) I would have changed both to: Junk and Near Junk.  Regards, OW
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