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8695 messages, Last post on Dec 09, 2009 at 8:09 AM
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Replying to: lemko (May 24, 2009 6:57 am) Maybe you are a little bit special. 
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Replying to: tlong (May 24, 2009 1:16 pm) So that would make the VOLT not a hybrid right, since it is ALWAYS propelled by an electric motor. Further, that would make the Jeep Wrangler a hybrid since its possible to propel the vehicle using the starter motor, which would be a gasoline electric hyrbid (this is also how the Range Rovers use start stop technology...the starter motor propels the vehicle until the engine starts). That's why it is a hybrid and the Range Rover you cite is not. Contrare monfrare, the Range Rover is powered by an electric motor, as described above, so that would meet your definition of "propelled by more than one technology."
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 24, 2009 1:31 pm) Further, that would make the Jeep Wrangler a hybrid since its possible to propel the vehicle using the starter motor, which would be a gasoline electric hyrbid (this is also how the Range Rovers use start stop technology...the starter motor propels the vehicle until the engine starts). That's why it is a hybrid and the Range Rover you cite is not. Contrare monfrare, the Range Rover is powered by an electric motor, as described above, so that would meet your definition of "propelled by more than one technology." Congratulations. You've just declared the Ford Fiesta to be the first subcompact hybrid to be sold in the US, as it has the auto-stop engine feature. It's powered 100% by the battery while not in motion.  And their implementation costs a LOT less than the implementation on the Vue and Malibu, too.
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Replying to: tlong (May 24, 2009 1:09 pm) I'm not getting your point. In the Volt, you go less than 40 miles, no gas engine, and no usability problem. You go MORE than 40 miles, gas engine kicks in, and you continue for another 300 miles or so. Run low on gas? Fill 'er up. Still, no usability problem.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (May 24, 2009 4:07 pm) I don't think so. The Fiesta uses a different system, its not based on using the starter. I will have to find the press release. And their implementation costs a LOT less than the implementation on the Vue and Malibu, too. This is true. But the technology wasn't available at the time.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (May 24, 2009 6:41 am) It would have been better if GM could have reacted to gas price jumps with quick aturnaround change to production of small cars. They got caught not ferociously pursuing those new kind of customers when they were taking in a lot of truck and SUV sales dollars. To some, this is cause to ridicule. Throw in bad timing, being the downturn created by the Oil traders and Mortgage sellers and traders, and you have the makings of a ridifest.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 24, 2009 5:34 pm) It's less of a stretch than calling the Wrangler a hybrid because of the starter motor. Of course, if you really want to stretch things, any car coasting downhill is a hybrid ICE/gravity propulsion. So let's stop the silliness, shall we? The Wrangler isn't a hybrid, it can't go an inch without the ICE motor. The Fiesta isn't a hybrid because it shuts its engine off while idling. The Volt isn't a hybrid, it's an electric car with an on-board generator which can not directly power the vehicle, only charge the battery (which is a completely different drivetrain than a car propelled by both battery and ICE directly). And the whole Mild Hybrid debacle was an attempt to throw on an idle engine cutoff system onto a car and call it "hybrid." The alternator can theoretically power the car up to 3 mph. That's not saying much since most cars travel 3 mph when idling in neutral with no pressure on the gas pedal. This is true. But the technology wasn't available at the time. Now THAT is silly-sounding, considering the new Malibu came out, what a year ago? Two, max?
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Replying to: bpizzuti (May 24, 2009 5:55 pm) It's less of a stretch than calling the Wrangler a hybrid because of the starter motor. Of course, if you really want to stretch things, any car coasting downhill is a hybrid ICE/gravity propulsion. So let's stop the silliness, shall we? The Wrangler isn't a hybrid, it can't go an inch without the ICE motor. The Fiesta isn't a hybrid because it shuts its engine off while idling. The Volt isn't a hybrid, it's an electric car with an on-board generator which can not directly power the vehicle, only charge the battery (which is a completely different drivetrain than a car propelled by both battery and ICE directly). I'm totally with you on these counts. Now THAT is silly-sounding, considering the new Malibu came out, what a year ago? Two, max? I was referring to the Fiesta style auto stop-start. The other thing is 2-3 years ago there wasn't a lot of demand for paying $2500 for a drivetrain when gas was $2/gal. I probably would've worked a bit harder on figuring out how to do that though for the future.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 24, 2009 6:23 pm) And yest Ford and Honda had to be working on their next-gen hybrid systems for them to be available today, even though gas was $2 a gallon when they started working on them. GM was still throwing money down a hole labeled Volt and trying to con people into thinking there was a hybrid version of the Malibu. To be fair Toyota didn't set the world on fire with anything revolutionary either...like, say a Sienna Hybrid and release the first hybrid minivan for larger families or something. Something GM also could have tried with a Traverse Hybrid, assuming they had a real, viable, workable hybrid drivetrain, but so far they're 0-2. Either third time's the charm or (looking more likely right now) three strikes and you're out.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 24, 2009 1:31 pm) Well after you go 40 miles, the propulsion is electric which is fed by the gas engine. So the ability of the car to move is dependent upon that gas engine. So I guess we're splitting hairs. Further, that would make the Jeep Wrangler a hybrid since its possible to propel the vehicle using the starter motor, which would be a gasoline electric hyrbid (this is also how the Range Rovers use start stop technology...the starter motor propels the vehicle until the engine starts). OK, with the Range Rover I'm not familiar with the EU spec. I assumed from your original post that the only technology used was auto start/stop of the engine at rest. If it's more than that then I stand corrected. My 66 VW beetle and pretty much any stick shift car can be propelled in gear by the starter motor. However that's not a normal propulsion mode (but useful if the clutch cable breaks or cylinder fails  )
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