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8665 messages, Last post on Dec 07, 2009 at 9:23 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: circlew (May 24, 2009 6:47 am)
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Replying to: lemko (May 24, 2009 6:57 am) Along the same lines, google "Toyota" and Vanilla" and see how many hits you get. Maybe OW is right. |
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Replying to: lemko (May 24, 2009 6:00 am) I do understand your feelings on driving a larger more comfortable car. Our society has tried their best to make those of US that consider a vehicle more than just transportation, to feel guilty. I don't see our leaders sacrificing their comfort to save the planet or fossil fuel. I am a little too far from the grocery store to walk, at 2.8 miles. I would be happy with a little car for running errands. When I take a trip even 100 miles up to Los Angeles I want a large comfortable, quiet vehicle. I don't need a $million dollar limo like Barry. The reasons I would like higher mileage is to avoid stopping at a stinking gas station. For me to drop from a 16 MPG Sequoia to a 20 MPG Escape/RAV4/CRV would be crazy. Going to a slightly smaller X5 diesel that gets 30 MPG on the highway and handles better than most sedans on the highway is a good option. Quite frankly GM and the D3 have NOTHING I would consider buying right now. For those that like big sedans the Buick and Caddy are fine. Just not my cup of tea. I have one, the LS400, and only drive it to see when it will break, so I can get rid of it. No more sedans in my future. Not much good on our 3rd world roads in CA. They are going to continue getting worse as we spend all the gas tax on welfare or something besides road maintenance. |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 24, 2009 6:53 am) What market segment is the Volt targeted at? Not me or anyone I know. Anyone can buy 2 Honda Civics for that price. Let's get your estimate of the sales rate for this unique nameplate from the failed GM. Regards, OW
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 24, 2009 6:53 am) Sure, there are people who commute only about 40 miles a day, but how many of them are there? GM needs the Volt to sell in large numbers to survive, and trying to lure a tiny cadre of takers isn't gonna help. Better yet, if you only drive 40 miles a day, why bother spending 40k on a Volt that needs frequent recharging, new battery every 5 years (according to GM itself), and cost $40k? Buy yourself a $15k Honda Fit and keep the change. It's as roomy as a Prius, and I seriously doubt GM can make Volt any roomier than a Prius. Plus I agree with OW. If you really want to be "green" (or economical, choose whichever you want), then just take the mass transit, 40 miles or less isn't far at all.
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Replying to: circlew (May 24, 2009 9:34 am) I don't think its my mind that is needs opening. In Santa Barbara, my father lives 6 miles from where he works. There is no bus stop there. There is no "high speed rail." From their house to downtown is about 12 miles. Again, no close bus stop, no "metro." The motor in that car would never turn on, even if he went to work AND down town. In Ann Arbor, my wife is maybe 10 miles from where she works (i think its more like 7 miles). There is no bus service within 3 miles of our house. The majority of our neighborhood has at least 1 member of their household working within 15 minutes of home. What market segment is the Volt targeted at? Not me or anyone I know. That might be so, are you jealous or something?
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Replying to: m4d_cow (May 24, 2009 10:36 am) This is where we fundamentally disagree...I think 40 miles on battery only is plenty of range for most commutes in the US. For those times when a family road trip is in order, the on board generator can recharge the battery. Better yet, if you only drive 40 miles a day, why bother spending 40k on a Volt that needs frequent recharging, new battery every 5 years (according to GM itself), and cost $40k? So how far does it have to be according to you to make sense? Hmm meets the needs of 80% of the population... Buy yourself a $15k Honda Fit and keep the change. It's as roomy as a Prius, and I seriously doubt GM can make Volt any roomier than a Prius. Eh, so you are suggesting to buy a Fit instead of a Prius as well? I think that is a valid point, since there is really no financial benefit to having a Prius. I thought you disagreed with me on that previously. Plus I agree with OW. If you really want to be "green" (or economical, choose whichever you want), then just take the mass transit, 40 miles or less isn't far at all. So what huge assumption are you falsely making here...oh that mass transit exists. Can you walk 40 miles? I can bike 40 miles but I don't think I could do 80, and it would be really ugly in the winter. As I said before, living in a bubble and making decisions on what other people want based on your own personal lifestyle is kind of silly.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 24, 2009 10:50 am) That might be so, are you jealous or something? Nope! Tesla S for me, thank you very much! Volt is another GM laugher as I speed past the Chevy dealer!  Regards, OW |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 24, 2009 6:53 am) The point is that we have a car in the Volt that will have serious usability issues over 40 miles range - much more usability issues than the Prius or Insight or Tesla. The Tesla is very expensive but you get sports car performance and >200mph range. The Prius and Insight you get way more than 200 mile range and they are very affordable. The Volt is expensive and has a very serious usability limitation over 40 miles between charges. Most people these days expect to be able to go at least 200 miles between fillups. So for the Volt, it is going to cost a lot AND have this usability issue. The market will obviously be very small. What smart leader at GM thought there was a good business case for this vehicle? With GM they've invested beaucoup $$$ on THREE different hybrid technologies, yet they don't even have a vehicle on the market that would be as affordable and usable while gaining substantial economy such as the Prius, Insight, Civic hybrid, Camry hybrid, Escape hybrid, or Fusion hybrid. That's just one example of why GM is such a failure as a business.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 24, 2009 6:57 am) You may have a problem in understanding hybrids. Hybrids are "hybrid propulsion" which means that the vehicle is "propelled by more than one technology". That propulsion can be in combination or separately at different times. Auto start-stop is not a hybrid technology. Hybrids can add propulsive energy to the vehicle by some means other than an ICE. It does not mean the ICE needs to shut off. Auto start-stop is just an energy saver while at rest. It doesn't mean propulsion is occurring with any assistance from other than the ICE. You could have an electric/flywheel hybrid. You could have an ICE/compressed air hybrid. Current hybrids are ICE/electric. You could also have a diesel/electric hybrid. The Civic hybrid has a modified transmission that has effectively an electric motor built into it, which provides additional propulsion to the vehicle. That's why it is a hybrid and the Range Rover you cite is not.
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