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Automotive News & Views GM News, New Models and Market Share
8452 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 11:27 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: bpizzuti (May 24, 2009 3:01 am)
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Replying to: lemko (May 24, 2009 6:12 am) Said Asian imports appear to be quite successful and profitable. Maybe this explains why GM and Chrysler are in such deep trouble. While Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, etc were building cars people wanted, GM and Chrysler were building cars they wanted instead.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (May 24, 2009 6:21 am) Where's Doc Brown's Delorean so I can go back to 1955, break it and stay there? Just think, I'll get to go through the Muscle Car Era I was too young to enjoy the first time through! Hopefully I'll be dead before 2009 comes again.
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Replying to: lemko (May 24, 2009 6:29 am) Maybe, but here's a great philosophical question, heh: Is it GM's fault for not building a product that appeals to customers, or is it the customers' collective faults for not finding GM's products appealing?  The answer is supposed to be A, but it seems like a lot of people, GM included, think it's supposed to be B. |
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Replying to: lemko (May 24, 2009 6:12 am) Perhaps I'll buy some 'vette bodies from the new owners to experiment with some college engineers fresh from graduation this year....nothing else to do! The storied V-8 is almost gone.  Regards, OW |
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Replying to: bpizzuti (May 24, 2009 6:41 am) The answer is supposed to be A, but it seems like a lot of people, GM included, think it's supposed to be B. It's always been answer A but twisted by some to B. The B folks, in the majority, refuse to see that the market will always rule. If market share is going down for company A and increasing for company B and C, there is a direct correlation to the products of company A not doing their job. Can it be more any more simple to understand? Regards, OW
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Replying to: tlong (May 23, 2009 9:29 pm) 1 - throw a generator that can function as a motor on a few vehicles and call them a hybrid: Malibu, Vue "Green Line" (another hype term covering up for no technology). About 1 mpg improvement. Stupid. This is basically autostart-stop technology, just like the original Civic "hybrid." 0 mph is 0 mpg. 2 - develop a highly complex and expensive two-mode hybrid system and throw it on the big gas guzzlers: Escalade, etc. Adds $10K to cost. Payback is >>10 years. Yeah, I think they could do better than a 10% increase in fuel economy on a 6000# vehicle. Another point regarding the Volt. An earlier post said that the Volt is more like the Tesla. Wrong. The Volt is still a HYBRID. Once you've gone 40 miles you are on gasoline power. With a drained battery you can never have more power than that gas engine can give you, you will have less as no energy conversion is 100% efficient. Right, and since something like 75% of the population live withing 40 miles of where they work, it may never turn on. The gasoline engine powers a generator, so I agree that there are losses in efficiency there, but that is allowing you've depleted the battery. So after 40 miles in your Volt, what happens when you need to climb the mountain pass? You are going to be in low gear in the right lane poking along, because your battery is dead! And that wimpy engine has to charge the battery, and the battery is immediately using all that charge to propel you up the hill! So you have, maximum, the amount of energy that wimpy engine can put out to get you over the hill! Right, and with the Tesla, you call AAA and get towed home. That sounds wonderful. The Volt might be fine if you rarely go over 40 miles before recharging, but it will have serious usability issues for those who drive longer distances and need range. This will further limit its market. So if it doesn't fit your lifestyle, don't buy one. I don't see why this is so complicated. It sounds like there is one of the biggest logical errors in engineering going on here...assuming everyone else's situation is just like yours.
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Replying to: tlong (May 23, 2009 9:41 pm) I agree, Range Rover has auto-start-stop on their European vehicles, I don't think that makes them a hybrid. Just like the 1st generation Civic Hybrid.
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Replying to: circlew (May 24, 2009 6:47 am)
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Replying to: lemko (May 24, 2009 6:57 am) Along the same lines, google "Toyota" and Vanilla" and see how many hits you get. Maybe OW is right. |
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