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Automotive News & Views GM News, New Models and Market Share
8601 messages, Last post on Dec 05, 2009 at 6:02 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (May 23, 2009 9:03 am) What makes Volt any different than a Prius? It's projected to be just as poor performing, plus remember: only 40 miles range on battery alone. Tesla is a whole other animal, which I agree with OW will leave Volt in the dust. Volt will never be anywhere near a Tesla in any aspect, try making a more sensible comparison. I'm not saying electric vehicle is a bad idea, but no matter how good an idea is, it's totally useless without enough R&D, which is exactly what's happening with Volt. You want us to check the facts, sure, but be fair and do the same. P.S: I don't see a single true GM hater here. A true GM religious follower? Yes I do see one, or more. |
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Replying to: xrunner2 (May 22, 2009 7:18 am) The $7500 is not JUST for the Volt. It is for ANY car using a 16kw battery set. The Volt qualifies under that category, as does the Tesla, IIRC. BTW, a PHEV Prius would qua;lify as well. |
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Replying to: circlew (May 23, 2009 9:17 am) Remember, you like dealing with facts. Most did buy Prius because of financial rather than "green". That's why sales peaked during the previous energy price spike. Riiigiht, and what is payoff for a Prius...back into that whole decade thing again. Gas prices went through the roof (in 2008, not 2001 when it was introduced) and suddenly they were hot. You know what, so was the Cobalt and Focus. Now gas prices dropped, inventory new and used is piled up...now what is breakeven? Unlike classic technology “early adopters,” people who purchased Prius automobiles did not feel that they paid a premium for the privilege of owning an environmentally friendly car. While the environmental benefits were a major consideration for them, they also saw clear financial benefits from their purchase, says a new study, Why People Really Buy Hybrids, by Topline Strategy Group. People believe what they want to believe and will spin things accordingly. You think GM is the root of all evil and nothing they do will change your mind; thats fine. People think they are "saving money" by paying $2500 extra for a car can believe what they want as well. All of the data I've seen said they did it to either 1. be green, or 2. end reliance on foreign oil. I'll try to help you stay on track as the cost is EXACTLY what is top priority in each Hybrid segment vs. the ICE equivalent. When cost parity is reached, Hybrid sales will exceed the oil burners. Actually, the topic is GM news, new models and market share. I am still failing to see your point here...what you are saying is that when hybrid drivetrains are free relative to existing technology, they will be more popular?  Hmm, something I have to pay extra for, vs something that is free...which one do I want.... |
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Replying to: circlew (May 23, 2009 9:27 am) Riiight, so since you are so caught up on cost, how much is that Tesla right now...oh yeah $109,000. That is 5 zeros. So for 30% of that I can get a BEV with an onboard generator so I don't need a second vehicle to go on trips? Yeah thats terrible. Shoot me now. At the end of the day, the Volt would have NEVER saved GM. Another pie in the sky advertisement to promote a failed brand. That is your argument, not mine. This whole one vehicle saving a company thing is kind of silly.
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YouTube video "I Drive What I Build" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPCKaA2Wr0o or see link on WCSX website
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Replying to: circlew (May 23, 2009 9:34 am) Wherever you been?? It's the point A -B thing these days. As the big oil guys continue to rule the landscape, all emotion is removed unless you could care less about spending more on gas then your rent. There is plenty of emotion in the performance/luxury segment if that's what floats your boat. The Insight isn't even a real Hybrid. It is always using its ICE. As far as A-B, I think that sounds like a comment from someone who is not in that market anyway. While I concur that I couldn't imagine anyone getting excited about a Camry (or a Lexus knock off, for that matter), the Fusion Sport, Mazdaspeed3, VW Jetta (and TDI) all seem to evoke emotion without being "luxury." Just because I can't afford a BMW right this second doesn't mean my automotive life has to suck.
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Replying to: m4d_cow (May 23, 2009 10:39 am) Mazda6 0-60: 6.5 seconds (edmunds- random $25k car) Prius 0-60: 11 seconds And I don't make my calculations based on resale value, in fact I never put them into consideration at all. And the environment thanks you. I guess if you live in LA and drive 20k a year, you made a good financial decision...and you get to use the carpool lane. If you live in a place where gas is still in the $2 range and you see speeds above 30 on the highway, eh, whatever helps you sleep at night. Remember this one point carefully: at least a Prius doesn't cost almost $40k. Hmm a Lexus HS250 probably does...pricing hasn't been release yet...nor has an official price for the Volt.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (May 23, 2009 6:46 am) The first does not necessarily follow the second...and while said suppliers must take some responsibility (who's bright idea was it to tie their fortunes so closely to one or two large customers? Without thinking about what happens if one of both of them either go away or simply take their business somewhere else?) it can be argued that said suppliers have less direct fault regarding their situation, and might be more deserving of some sort of bailout. |
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Replying to: steve_ (May 23, 2009 7:24 am) In a nutshell that's what the rest of my post said. Unless they can come up with some reasonably good justification for taking a breather and going through the process carefully, they'll look like they're stalling, and lose what credibility they have left.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (May 23, 2009 6:13 pm)  Can't imagine what the ulterior motive would be, except just to be ornery. Maybe it would give the bondholders or dealers a little more time to try to bail? |
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