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Automotive News & Views GM News, New Models and Market Share
8478 messages, Last post on Nov 27, 2009 at 6:24 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Apr 25, 2009 8:36 am) Nah. Stealing had nothing to do with it. One of the largest problems was that folks that could both afford and appreciate the Phaeton's virtues would not be caught dead in a VW dealership. Much the same as if Toyota were to have made a mistake (not too likely) and develop and market a car equivalent in price and atttributes to top Lexus sedan and name it a Toyota something that would be bought and serviced at Toyota dealers. Who in their right mind would spend $60-70K on it and then have to sit in ordinary waiting room next to Corolla owners while getting brief service. This would be beneath them.
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Apr 25, 2009 8:12 am) "Meant to compete with..." They did not even come close. These cars were failures in every regard. Nobody high up got fired for these bombs. The only acclaim for Allante that I recall is when Kelly Bundy was competing with other models to do an ad/promo for the car. |
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Apr 25, 2009 12:22 pm) I think you make a lot of assumptions about other people - "them" and what they would do and not do. I can't think of a stand alone Audi dealer in Michigan that isn't paired with VW and or Porsche, sharing the same service facility and waiting room. Hyundai too seems to be having a pretty good go at a "premium" vehicle from a pedestrian brand. Instead Toyota introduced the Lexus ES250, which didn't even differ in body components from the Camry of the time. Even the ES300 had very little real difference. |
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Replying to: steevo (Apr 25, 2009 10:29 am) Yup, both ugly trucks the market didn't want and no one bought. At least you can get a piece of plywood in the Aztec.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Apr 25, 2009 1:00 pm) Yup, both ugly trucks the market didn't want and no one bought. At least you can get a piece of plywood in the Aztec. The only thing they have in common is that they're ugly. The Aztek was a crossover, the FJ an offroader truck. The Aztek was a midsize vehicle, the FJ a compact. Aztek - AWD. FJ - 4WD. To even think that they might be similar is truly a sense of desperation as far as justifying GM's screwups.
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Apr 25, 2009 12:30 pm) How can you say that??? While not as acclaimed as their MB counterparts, the same clientele bought them. Look at their values today. they are as "worthless" and as much of a "bomb" as their MB counterparts from that era.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Apr 25, 2009 2:39 pm) I never really understood why the Aztek took so much flak while the Rendezvous was pretty popular. "There seemed little chance U.S. car makers could look any worse, but moves like General Motors' announcement Thursday that it will cut production this summer risk scaring off remaining potential customers and eroding decades of brand loyalty." Brand loyalty at risk as GM makes new cuts (Lincoln Tribune) |
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......Rick Waggoner could get a $20 million exit package from GM. If that isn't the final "last straw" to the American taxpayers and shareholders  . What a crock this is |
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Apr 25, 2009 3:03 pm) The Allante, for all of its shortcomings, is probably the best Caddy product of that time.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Apr 25, 2009 2:39 pm) It wasn't serving as justification of anything, just showing that other companies follow similar screw ups. I think where domestic manufacturers have fallen down in the past is proving out the concept and engineering before the customer gets it. This is where the reliability issues come in on vehicles like the Vega and the Fiero, or even the Citation (you could fit a full sized wheel chair in the hatch back area with the rear seats up). Chrysler invents the minivan, GM can't figure it out (never did) and Ford just copied the Dodge as much as possible, and brings in Nissan then Mazda to help. This is what GM execs should've been spanked over. Now they just say people don't want minivans and bring in "cross overs" It took Toyota and Honda 3 tries each to nail the minivan. Now they are getting brought back to earth by Kia since their minivan is an Sienna clone. And actually thats not really fair because there is nothing mini about the Siena and Odyssey except their payloads; they are larger than short wheelbase full size vans. If you really like the FJ I didn't mean to offend you.
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