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8064 messages, Last post on Nov 10, 2009 at 10:32 PM
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1957-1958 Knudsen came to Pontiac with unspoken, but strongly implied orders: make the division something really special in five years, or lose the nameplate. Pontiac had a fine reputation for durability and reliability, but wasn't known for building cars that commanded attention. His strategy, not surprisingly, was to infuse new life into the product. His first major change was to kill the silver streaks, Pontiac's design hallmark. Around since 1935, the "suspenders," as Knudsen called them, were gone by the '57 model. He issued the order days before the vehicles went into volume production. The tooling was in place, the parts and components in production, the press photos had been shot, and newspaper, magazine and showroom ads prepared. He also phased out the signature Indian-head hood ornament in '57. Also in 1957, John DeLorean joined Pontiac to head up advanced engineering. DeLorean, Knudsen and Pontiac chief engineer Pete Estes were a powerful team and inspired the cars that soon would reshape the division. Pontiac unveiled the Bonneville in February 1957 at the Daytona Beach race. Considered an upscale model, it was the first Pontiac to have fuel injection, and was a direct competitor to the Chrysler 300 and DeSoto Golden Adventurer. Pontiac limited production to just 630 vehicles and offered it only in a convertible. The V8 engine was bored out to 370-cubic inch displacement, and achieved 310 SAE gross hp at 4800 rpm and 400 lb.-ft. of torque at 3400 rpm with a top speed of more than 130 mph. It ran 0-60 mph in 8.1 seconds, and a tuned stock model was timed at 144 mph on the Salt Flats. It weighed 4,285 lbs. and cost $4,400. Bonneville became a series in '58, adding a two-door hardtop. Prices dropped to $3,179 for the hardtop and $3,277 for the ragtop. Pontiac built just 400 fuel injected Bonnevilles in '58. The division then dropped fuel injection in '59. Those to me were the best years for Pontiac. My step dad bought a 1961 Tempest while I was in High school. We put more miles on the loaner cars than that Tempest. It was in the shop more than in our driveway. My dad still kept buying Pontiacs. I think they went down hill after the 1960 Bonneville. None since did anything for me.
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Apr 25, 2009 5:45 am) I'll give you the Impala, but the last Riviera actually looked pretty darn good, compared with the 1986-1994 models. The Roadmaster actually had a fairly good following, ESPECIALLY when they put the LT-1 engine in it. Those are now becoming desirable because of the driveline. The Allante and Reatta were hand built, and low production models, meant to compete w/ the Mercedes coupe and convertible. While not as desireable at the time, check out the ad's on Hemmings. The Reatta, Allante, and Merc. SL convertibles all bring in about the same money; $15-20K
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Replying to: dieselone (Apr 25, 2009 5:10 am) I assume he cross-shopped similar models, comparing the Fusion SEL to the Accord EX-L. Its interesting though, as the mean and median age for Accord buyers goes up, the mean age for the Fusion buyer goes down. Honda (and more-so Toyota) is becoming the new Buick and Lincoln. Its ashame to lose a buyer to a foreign make, but how many more vehicles is he going to buy in his lifetime? How many more vehicles are you and I going to purchase? This is what killed Lincoln and Cadillac, making cars for older folks who don't drive a whole lot of miles, don't change cars too often, and in retirement, are on fixed incomes. I hope the Honda cylinder shutdown issue is resolved and he has a smooth ride that will last him a long time. |
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Apr 25, 2009 5:45 am) Actually I concurred with you on the Cimmaron, but the Aztek was a whitespace vehicle, totally new, developing a niche market. Yes yes it was terrible...so terrible Toyota tried the same thing with the FJ Cruiser and failed. Now that market has matured and given us the Infiniti FX, BMW X6, and the Nissan Marano and Ford Edge. Oldsmobile Achiva was how the Quad4 came into being. Again, for the time, a pretty advanced engine with 16 valves, fuel injection, etc. This was in the 80s when Ford had the Vulcan in everything, and Chrysler still needed Mitsubishi to make their engines. That engine should've been in the Fiero! Which brings us to the Fiero...the concept was great, a lightweight, high mileage 2 seater with dent resistant body panels (a la Saturn). It used a spaceframe type assembly to support those lightweight body panels. I know I know, it was so terrible that again Toyota copied it and introduced the MR2 2 years later. I guess what I am missing is what it takes to be a success in your book. Does it have to sell 1,000,000 vehicles a year, because those days are long gone. Do you personally have to like it, because I don't know relevant that is in aggregate. I think the Camry is the most boring miserable car to drive ever (next to the Prius) but don't think my opinion is so valid. A top mgmt guy was fired at VW for sponsoring and approving the Phateon. Because they were trying to cannibalize sales from another brand they already had, not because the car was bad in any way. I believe that was in your original post, about stealing sales from other brands under the same parent. Add to that, the Phateon was definitely innovative.
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Replying to: dieselone (Apr 25, 2009 4:52 am) All non warranty work in up to 50,000 miles in my 6 new GMs: an alternator belt on one, $14 a battery on another in 5th year nothing nothing a battery in another, but in 6th year nothing. My used Ford has been near flawless. It has the terrible 3.8 with factory headers and a bad O2 sensor and only gets 28 mpg hwy. I ran a used Buick from 88k up to 171k miles for less than just your a/c repair and that includes maintenance and wear items like tires and oil changes. Your luck has been about 20 times worse than mine with GM. With Ford we are even. Neither one of us is typical. Maybe the average luck with GM's is better than mine so far. |
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Replying to: pafromfl (Apr 24, 2009 8:46 pm)
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Apr 25, 2009 8:36 am)
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Replying to: PMO (Apr 25, 2009 10:23 am) It would be the same as someone in Alabama claiming they control Daimler-Benz or someone in Ohio claiming they control Honda...insane....branch plants do not allow anyone to "give" permission to a foreign company. |
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General Motors (GM) disclosed in an SEC filing Friday afternoon that the GM Common Stock Fund, an option in the automaker’s employee savings plans that allowed workers to choose to invest some of their retirement money in the company’s stock, has sold all of its GM shares, and now holds only short-term fixed income investments and money market instruments. GM explained in the filing that the manger of the fund, State Street Bank and Trust, under certain circumstances is specifically authorized to do exactly what it did: : * If “there is a serious question concerning General Motors…short-term viability as a going concern without resorting to bankruptcy proceedings.” * Or if “there is no possibility in the short-term of recouping any substantial proceeds from the sale of stock in bankruptcy proceedings.” In the filing, GM said that “State Street made the determination that this standard had been met due to the economic climate and the circumstances surrounding GM’s business.” GM said the fund began selling the stock on March 31, and completed the sales today. The fund is going to be liquidated, and will no longer be offered as an option on GM retirement plans. Draw your own conclusions. Regards, OW
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Apr 25, 2009 8:36 am) Nah. Stealing had nothing to do with it. One of the largest problems was that folks that could both afford and appreciate the Phaeton's virtues would not be caught dead in a VW dealership. Much the same as if Toyota were to have made a mistake (not too likely) and develop and market a car equivalent in price and atttributes to top Lexus sedan and name it a Toyota something that would be bought and serviced at Toyota dealers. Who in their right mind would spend $60-70K on it and then have to sit in ordinary waiting room next to Corolla owners while getting brief service. This would be beneath them.
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