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#5225 of 32000 Re: Pontiac to die? [bvdj84] by andre1969

Apr 24, 2009 (5:14 am)

Replying to: bvdj84 (Apr 23, 2009 7:33 pm)
Once upon a time, the only orphan I owned was a DeSoto. Then Plymouth and Olds got added to that list. Looks like I'm gonna have to add Pontiac, now.
 
It's really no surprise, though...we all knew it was coming. Heck, Pontiac was actually close to getting the axe back in the early 1980's, as it started to lose its identity and posted huge sales losses. They bounced back in a major way for 1984, but I guess nothing is forever.

#5226 of 32000 Re: Pontiac to die? [andre1969] by lemko

Apr 24, 2009 (7:00 am)

Replying to: andre1969 (Apr 24, 2009 5:14 am)
Sad, but Pontiac has been merely a cosmetically different version of a Chevrolet for too long. Remember those beautiful mid-60s Pontiac Executives, Bonnevilles, and Grand Prixes which were CLEARLY a step up from a Chevy? I rented a Grand Am a few years back and the interior was abominable. It was nothing like the beautiful wood-grained dash of a 1965 Pontiac Grand Prix with it's chromed grab bar on the right hand side of the dash and ornate console with tach. The Grand Am featured nothing but acres of dismal gray plastic. The only thing that stood out was the red backlighting. I was kind of hoping the G8 would herald Pontiac's rebirth, but alas, it was a false dawn!

#5227 of 32000 Re: Brand strategy [aldw] by lilengineerboy

Apr 24, 2009 (7:16 am)

Replying to: aldw (Apr 23, 2009 11:49 am)
One thing that always pissed me off about GM's organization is how the brands never seem to operate in concert like other companies do. VW's brands don't clash over resources or market share the way GM brand's do,
 
What?
 
1 word: PHAETON
 
It almost made VW go belly up because they wanted to make a car better than the Audi A8. The Passat shared platform and mechanicals with the A4 and A6. The A3 is a GTI station wagon...
 
Ultimately it will take a combination of brand elimination and expansion of remaining brands (Chevrolet and Cadillac) for a new GM to grow and prosper.
 
I agree with this...if there is such a positive legacy attached to some of the makes, retain the names as trim levels, since that is kind of what they are anyway. Chevy can have the Super Sport, and Cadillac or Buick can have a "Pontaic Edition" with more aggressive suspension tuning and red dials in stead of 60s blue-green.
 
I think another Detroit area brand should think about a similar strategy.

#5228 of 32000 Re: Pontiac to die? [lemko] by lilengineerboy

Apr 24, 2009 (7:21 am)

Replying to: lemko (Apr 24, 2009 7:00 am)
I was kind of hoping the G8 would herald Pontiac's rebirth, but alas, it was a false dawn!
 
Its a great car, just expensive to import and what not. It does feel like a legitimate sport sedan, its just very expensive. The GTO was a learning experience in retro for GM where people don't always remember things the way they were. The original GTO was a bland 2 dr coupe with a huge motor, and when they did that again, even going so far as to include a manual transmission, people said the styling was too mild.
 
I also REALLY like the CTS. It just pushes the right buttons for me. It needs to stay priced a tier below the 3 series, but I would definitely rather have the CTS than any Lexus or Acura that comes to mind in that range.

#5229 of 32000 Re: Brand strategy [lilengineerboy] by lemko

Apr 24, 2009 (7:21 am)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Apr 24, 2009 7:16 am)
whatever became of the weird Passat W-8?

#5230 of 32000 Re: Pontiac to die? [lemko] by xrunner2

Apr 24, 2009 (7:24 am)

Replying to: lemko (Apr 24, 2009 7:00 am)
I rented a Grand Am a few years back and the interior was abominable. It was nothing like the beautiful wood-grained dash of a 1965 Pontiac Grand Prix with it's chromed grab bar on the right hand side of the dash and ornate console with tach.
 
Had that 65 Prix (dark blue) long ago and would agree about the luxury of it compared to say a Chevrolet. Recall the tach, but not the chromed grab bar. Need to check out at some car show this summer.
 
It is too bad about GM having to shed Pontiac. If there had been any, any car guys at GM like Lutz back in 70's, 80's that might have had vision, maybe Pontiac would have truly evolved into a BMW 3 or Infiniti G competitor through those years and be strong today.

#5231 of 32000 Re: Pontiac to die? [lilengineerboy] by lemko

Apr 24, 2009 (7:25 am)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Apr 24, 2009 7:21 am)
Well, a 1965 Grand Prix was hardly a sport coupe, but a big brawny cruiser which the G8 reminded me of. The G8 was the first Pontiac I would've seriously considered since a late 1970s Bonneville.

#5232 of 32000 Re: Pontiac to die? [xrunner2] by lemko

Apr 24, 2009 (7:33 am)

Replying to: xrunner2 (Apr 24, 2009 7:24 am)
Pontiac was doomed when it lost John DeLorean. I'd say 1967 was the last year of the truly beautiful Pontiacs. It lost something when it strayed from the stacked headlamp look of 1963-67.
 
Pontiac really started to stray when the 1968 Grand Prix came out. It was a big fat turkey! The 1969-70 Grand Prix was definately a step back in the right direction, but even it became pimpy and overwrought as the 1970s moved on.
 
The big 1970 Pontiacs were quite homely compared to their predecessors. I thought the high placement of the headlamps on the 1971-72 big Pontiacs was kind of weird. It reminded me of were headlamps were placed on cars from 1958 and prior. IMO the 1973-74 styling of the big Pontiacs was an improvement despite the big bumpers.

#5233 of 32000 Re: Pontiac to die? [xrunner2] by andre1969

Apr 24, 2009 (7:37 am)

Replying to: xrunner2 (Apr 24, 2009 7:24 am)
Had that 65 Prix (dark blue) long ago and would agree about the luxury of it compared to say a Chevrolet. Recall the tach, but not the chromed grab bar. Need to check out at some car show this summer.
 
My '76 Grand LeMans has that grab bar, but it's not chromed. And better not grab it too hard, or it'll probably tear off! At least the old ones had some strength to them, and weren't just for show.
 
I've seen 60's Bonnevilles with that grab bar too, and probably the Catalina 2+2. It might have been an extra-cost option.

#5234 of 32000 Re: Brand strategy [lilengineerboy] by xrunner2

Apr 24, 2009 (7:39 am)

Replying to: lilengineerboy (Apr 24, 2009 7:16 am)
1 word: PHAETON
  
It almost made VW go belly up because they wanted to make a car better than the Audi A8. The Passat shared platform and mechanicals with the A4 and A6. The A3 is a GTI station wagon...
 
If I recall correctly, a top mgmt guy, either CEO, COO, or similar was fired because of Phaeton disaster. Presumably, GM top mgmt (CEO) approves when new models such as Aztek, Cimmaron, Allante, Reatta, Vega, retro GTO, SSR pickup retro, etc are put into production. Never heard of top management at GM being fired for all of their disasters. Too bad Donald Trump was not on GM Board over last 3 decades. GM would likely be ok.

Messages Page 524 of 3201

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