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Automotive News & Views GM News, New Models and Market Share
8671 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2009 at 8:56 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 28, 2009 4:03 am) >They do after benefits, some of them. That number isn't all money going to the individual worker, rather it includes the cost of servicing the healthcare and retirement of many older workers who worked for a US company. The foreign makers locating their plants here because they were forced to by threat of tariffs don't have the older workers, yet. Of course they will structure their part timers and employee demographics to avoid having retirees with healthcare and retirement pay as happened to UAW employers. I guess the older workers at UAW plants should just have disappeared or died, so they wouldn't cost anything to be used in comparisons with the transplant's factories' costs? 
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 28, 2009 7:06 am) Regards, OW |
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 28, 2009 4:03 am) Exactly. I've been saying for years, the problem is that if GM doesn't directly compete with a model then they're blamed for not having built a Civic equivalent. If they do have a model that's directly competing, then the ones liking that competitor are posting everywhere that the new GM/US model JANG because it doesn't have a door over the GPS to hide it or the control for the heaters on the outside mirrors is in front of the shifter or some other thing--i.e., no matter what they do, there's always a reason it is JANG (just ain't no good), sort of like the nagging wife examples. > the Camry is considered "excellent" by many, as is the Accord. The key word there is "considered." All of the comparison is subjective. I started seeing reversion to the mean for those two in 03 models. But no matter what they do that gives problems there are still those using them for comparisons as the archgod of perfection. Despite VCM problems, seat problems on Camrys, (just read three last evening), seat problems on Accord, brake wear, shifting problems on Camry and other Toyotas, transmission failures (Honda), they are held up as perfection. Naaah. They're cars. They have blemishes and warts. The dealers still make a fortune in the back shop repairing them--or in the case of VCM and shifting problems and some others, telling owners that's the way they were designed to run and not repairing them!!! So people will prefer a car because they have allegiance to it, but a major problem for GM and US makers it the constant ridicule about things which have changed from the past. Some people had bad experiences, but things have changed for most in reliability. The threat of bankruptcy or disappearance of one of the US makers or more, also is affecting sales. That's a politician's problem but is affecting the country.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 28, 2009 4:03 am) For a parallel example has anyone computer the pay rate for the Executives and CEOs based on the cost of all retired executives, their healthcare, and stock options yet unexercised, etc., to determine what we really are paying the CEOs of the Big Three or other companies? That's not done, but why is it done for the line workers? I'm the first to suggest a pay adjustment for the high pay, high seniority UAW worker, but I think the technique is more political rather than practical. It's like the politicians crititicizing the jets. |
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Jan 27, 2009 1:59 pm) |
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Replying to: andre1969 (Jan 28, 2009 4:54 am) So basically, they're all good cars, and therein lies the problem. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have been luring away domestic car buyers for years, decades even. If they're all good cars, but people are happy with their Accords, Camrys, and Altimas, what incentive is there for them to switch to a Malibu/Aura or Fusion? Malibu was up 40% for '08. |
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Replying to: tlong (Jan 27, 2009 7:42 pm)
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Replying to: andre1969 (Jan 28, 2009 4:54 am) |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 28, 2009 7:24 am) Of course it's all subjective, but if customers are considering that, then GM would do well to look from a customer's perspective. They need to stop talking about "Stop looking at them, we're just as good!" and start talking like "Ok, what can we do to get customers to think We're the kings rather than Honda and Toyota?" They have blemishes and warts. The dealers still make a fortune in the back shop repairing them--or in the case of VCM and shifting problems and some others, telling owners that's the way they were designed to run and not repairing them!!! How about telling customers who want a Nav system "Oh you don't need a nav system. By the way, how do you like this OnStar thingy?" I still can't figure out why, when all of the competition provides an in-dash nav system option, GM decided not to bother. That's a conscious decision to not be as good as the competition. |
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Jan 27, 2009 9:08 am) So what do you say, Arnie??? 
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