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8059 messages, Last post on Nov 09, 2009 at 1:39 PM
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There was a slight cost difference between battery suppliers A123 and LG Chem, the company selected to make lithium-ion batteries for the electric Chevrolet Volt, but the overriding factor was not cost, but experience, said GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz. LG Chem, which will initially supply the batteries from Korea, has several more years of experience in the "prismatic" cell design Lutz said is needed for long-term energy storage. "We need to eliminate risk as much as possible because we're going so fast," the product chief said. The ever-blunt Lutz said the technology needs to come from countries such as Korea, China and Japan where the governments support this kind of research, whereas the United States does not. LG Chem has a whole research campus paid for by the Korean government, Lutz said in advocating U.S. support for advanced technology development. Lutz said he hopes the incoming Obama Administration sees the need to invest in battery development as a key U.S. competency. Meanwhile, volumes will be low of the Korean-made batteries and Lutz said he hopes if the volumes warrant, LG Chem will look at establishing an American plant to make the cells. |
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Wagoner outlined an advanced battery strategy for GM that includes two pathways. GM is selecting areas it will consider core competencies -- Wagoner specified battery r&d and assembly -- and creating a list of global battery suppliers and academic experts to tap for projects and to help GM develop its own battery engineers. Key parts of the initiative include: • Opening the largest automotive battery lab in the United States -- 31,000 square feet -- that can test new energy storage technologies as well as lithium ion and nickel-metal hydride batteries. The lab will lead GM's network of existing labs in Honeoye Falls, N.Y.; Warren, Mich.; Torrance, Calif.; and Mainz-Kastel, Germany. • Adding several hundred engineers this year to GM's global hybrid, electric-vehicle and advanced battery staff. • Working with the University of Michigan to create an automotive advanced battery lab in Ann Arbor, Mich., and to train automotive battery engineers. • Establishing a roster of battery suppliers for cell development, manufacturing and battery integration expertise -- specifically including LG Chem, A123 Systems, Hitachi Ltd., Compact Power and Cobasys. • Collaborating with government organizations and industry consortiums -- such as the U.S. Department of Energy, U.S. Council for Automotive Research, U.S. Advanced Battery Consortium LLC and the Electric Power Research Institute -- to promote the development of hybrids, plug-ins and electric vehicles and the related infrastructure to support them. In GM’s announcement today, LG Chem, of South Korea, was identified as the supplier of battery cells for the Volt. Currently, the cells for lithium ion batteries are all manufactured overseas, but $100 million of the new $335-million Michigan incentive package for battery makers – which Gov. Jennifer Granholm is expected to sign into law Wednesday at Cobo Center – is dedicated to locating a battery cell plant in the state. |
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LG Chem, the South Korean company that will supply lithium ion batteries for the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid, is considering building a plant in the United States. Patil said, the battery's basic chemistry, which relies heavily on manganese, is set. How was LG Chem able to win the Volt battery contract? We had three advantages. One is the cathode chemistry, which is more manganese-based. That has the safety characteristics because it resists giving off oxygen. But at the same time, it also has a stable and fixed cost. The second is the battery's proprietary zinc core separator. The importance of that is that other manufacturers have protection devices outside the cell. But we have a significant layer of protection inside the cell. And finally, it is the laminated flat package. It is like the battery in your laptop. The part count is so much smaller, which means better manufacturability, better quality and lower cost. And it is also good for thermal management. The temperature difference between the center of that flat cell and the surface is much less than in a cylindrical cell. If ever the cell was to let go, the failure mode is very benign. If a cylindrical cell lets go, it becomes a projectile. What is the expected life span of the battery pack? We are going to be warrantying it for 10 years or 150,000 miles. It's an arrangement where GM warranties it to the customer, and we are responsible to GM for the warranty. When will LG deliver the first production-ready cells to GM? We have already been delivering production-intent cells. GM is already putting production-intent cells into packs. |
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General Motors has not yet taken up an offer of emergency loans from the Canadian government as it seeks to clarify the conditions that would be attached to borrowing the money, a top executive said today. "It was not as detailed as what we've been dealing with in the U.S., so we need to engage in dialogue there before we go any further," GM Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson told reporters at the Detroit auto show. "We haven't accepted it." "We want to make sure it fits into an overall viability plan for GM before we accept it," he added. |
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Hopefully a new company can be formed but most likely the safety/emissions standards will keep actual cells from being built here. I would think that the Cells are the big cost. Tying them together in a battery should not be very expensive. Some labor, but most costly cells built elsewhere. Regulations will kill industry in this country faster than high labor costs. Not sure how A123 was a scam. Not the companies attempt to get a contract with GM. I am sure they are a legitimate research company. They do have issues with their batteries that may or may not be resolved. I tend to think it is the Li-Ion technology that is flawed. My complaint with A123 was trying to snag $1.84 billion in tax dollars for a new facility to build batteries for the Volt. They probably knew they would lose the GM contract. every large OEM is showing their electric cars from Chrylser to Nissan and any of those could use the batteries. If GM chose a different cell maker because they make better batteries, do you think any other auto maker will want 2nd rate batteries from A123? Hybrid sales are tanking due to gas under $2 and their price You are right. In San Diego alone there are 100s of Prius sitting on dealers lots. Same for the Civic Hybrid. It is our typical knee jerk reaction to the price of gas. Now is the time to buy a hybrid if that is what you want. Though my brother in law wanted an Escape Hybrid and the dealer was not budging off of MSRP. He bought a loaded V6 Escape for $10k less. GM has a 2 story exhibit they have used the last few years but did not put it up due to the cost of moving and assembling it. I imagine it is the same complaint that I hear from a friend that oversees travel shows for the Greek Travel ministry. UNION workers that will not let you touch your own display at many venues. He did a travel show in Chicago and does not think they will go back there. The Union goons damaged their exhibit and would not accept responsibility. I imagine the Detroit Convention facilities are totally controlled by Unions. It would be interesting to find out how many of those not participating felt the costs imposed by the different Unions kept them away. AND it looks like even the Tokyo Motor Show may be canceled this year. The theme is "Fun driving for us, eco driving for earth." There is NOTHING Fun about green cars and hybrids. They appealed to a VERY small group of eco techno greenie nerds. Fun is a Porshce 911. While we will be seeing more and more of the econo type cars, they are just for transportation. I would say that anyone that thinks driving a Prius is fun, runs shy of a full load. It is economical transportation at best.
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Ford Motor Co. executives say U.S. industry sales during the first 10 days of January rose from December levels, a sign that the market's decline may be abating. "The first couple of weeks have started off stronger than we expected," Jim Farley, Ford group vice president of marketing and communications, said here today at the auto show. "It's been across the board, across the industry." The increase spans a range of vehicle segments, said Ken Czubay, Ford's vice president of U.S. sales and marketing, citing internal sales data and conversations with competitors. Czubay estimated that the industry is on track to sell 20,000 to 30,000 more vehicles this month than in December. January sales topping December's would be more significant than the raw numbers suggest because December is typically a stronger month.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 12, 2009 6:18 pm)
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Replying to: lemko (Jan 13, 2009 6:07 am) |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 13, 2009 4:44 am) |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 13, 2009 5:54 am) So that would be, um... 5 wouldn't it? 1,2,3,4 The reason for the confusion is Lutz is counting the Solstice twice, for the convertible and the coupe. So you get G8, G5, Vibe, and 2 Solstices. I agree with earlier posters that cutting 8 models out of 48 over 3 years is simply not going far enough. GM needs to cut more overlapping models and quickly! |
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