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Automotive News & Views GM News, New Models and Market Share
8059 messages, Last post on Nov 09, 2009 at 1:39 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Jan 11, 2009 12:09 pm) Just like we don't need 4 GMC Acadias. At least the Avalon is actually bigger than the Camry. |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 11, 2009 12:23 pm) Quality is not good enough: Buick is now world class at the top with Lexus for both short and long term. Dealership is not good: Buick is at the top of dealership satisfaction Interior is not good enough: Looks pretty darn good now with top notch materials Exterior is plain: Looks pretty stylish now Ride and handling sucks: Now it has high tech real time adjustable dampers(will have to wait for ride to see how it works. It does not have high tech: Now it does It is loud: Now quietest of all midsize/entry level marques Does not have high tech modern headlamps:now it does and they even swivel Does not have high tech taillights: Now it has LED taillights AWD is not available: now it is powertrain out of date: aluminum overhead cam V6 with DI MPG sucks: Very competitive now It's not made in the US: now it is The badge is out of date. 62, we realize you are pro-GM, but let's look at this seriously. Buick has a certain image, and brand images take a long time to change. Even if most of what you say is true (I haven't checked but have no reason to disbelieve) -- most of these changes are very recent, no? Is it really that unreasonable that brand image is still stuck with models a few years older? Look at the shoddy reputation (deserved) of Hyundai starting in the 1980's. Well in 20 years they've now produced the car of the year, the Genesis - and they STILL have their old reputation to overcome. It's changing but they are still not looked at like Lexus, Honda, or Toyota. Buick's and GM's changes for the better are far more recent than Hyundai's. It looks like you believe that with a new product announcement people are going to wipe their previous observations clean and immediately embrace the new image of Buick, due to a product just shown but not even on the market yet. Why do you think we were all complaining in these forums 4 or more years ago? GM still has a lot of "crappy" (per previous discussion) models in their lineup. Opinion is changing but is going to take a lot of time, assuming the product continues to move towards excellence. So "my god it never ends" is a bit premature. We've been saying "my god it never ends" about the crappy products from GM for a long time. It may be the case that they(crappy products) are going to end soon, but the jury is out. It is not unreasonable for people to be skeptical given the history.
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 11, 2009 2:08 pm) If that is going to be UAW labor then I can see another world of hurt. Assuming the Volt actually sells much. If it does then the UAW will probably strike. 
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Replying to: tlong (Jan 11, 2009 7:48 pm) I'd frankly put the new Buick as a direct competitor to the Lexus or E class. It's fast, and that magnetic ride technology is the same that's used in the Corvette. It really transforms the car into a serious European feel/ride. Yes, Gm has some of the best cars. The problem is that they also have tons of detritus and bloat that's causing them to keep sinking. And, no GM doesn't need a small car. THey would do best in fact by avoiding the cheap and small cars entirely. They can't win against them, and they make no profit. Jaguar for instance never went the budget route, either, and did fairly well for decades. Porsche as well, in their own way. I'd rather have a GM with 20 unique and hot cars that we all want and lust after, and nothing else.
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Replying to: plekto (Jan 11, 2009 8:55 pm) Great comments, but gotta disagree here. IMHO one of the reasons Toyota and Honda are so successful is that they have not neglected their entry-level cars - they are generally better than the competition's. Honda, particularly, has done a great job with the Fit and the Civic. The first car for a teenager builds brand loyalty and that translates often to many more new car sales in the future. If the entry-level car is junk then the driver is going to look for something else next time. There is also a lucrative small premium car segment that GM has completely ignored. There are a lot of sales of A4s, BMW3s, Lexus IS's, high end Jettas, TSX's, even Mini Coopers -- and GM has nothing in this segment. Most of those vehicles are priced evenly with some of GMs midsized or large cars. GM would certainly be able to generate a profit from a small car that sells for $35K. I'd rather have a GM with 20 unique and hot cars that we all want and lust after, and nothing else. Completely agree. GM has focused on quantity (lots of divisions, lots of models, lots of rebadges, lots of rental fodder). They are beginning to focus as much energy on the vehicles themselves rather than how many models they can make. Fewer excellent vehicles will make them more successful. Look at Honda - not that many models, yet very successful.
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Replying to: tlong (Jan 11, 2009 7:48 pm)
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Replying to: tlong (Jan 11, 2009 11:42 pm) |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 12, 2009 4:04 am) >but it can go a bit far But some of the bias is from feelings about cars from the 70s and 80s, perhaps earned. But it's almost a religion for a few people. They don't look at the current actual product; instead they constantly criticize almost like politics. What's interesting is the difference in forums and how they'll allow GM-bashing continually but in contrast will step in to squelch long-lasting criticism of Honda and Toyota, e.g., sludge discussions. The feeling is that GM deserves continuing criticism for the past. A big factor in the willingness to forgive faults of the foreign models from the past and present is in how the companies handled the 80s and 90s sales of their cars. I was listening to 3 dealer owners/managers being a part of a discussion during the bail out discussion on a Louisville radio station. They pointed out the car sale was the difference; for the foreign brands (then) it was arch important to keep the owner bringing the car back to the dealer for the service and proper maintenance (and fixes of things to avoid having to issue recalls). Counterpoint to this was the US brands who sold the car and the car was sometimes serviced properly and often wasn't. Then when things failed because of not having been repaired or maintained, the car company is blamed. The three described the foreign car sale as the PROCESS of ownership rather than just the sale, hence the better feeling about the cars on the part of the owners. In other words the US manufacturers goofed in competing with the new foreign brands of that era by not making it a requirement to bring vehicles back for regular service to handle the things that needed changing along with the oil change.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 12, 2009 5:27 am) I prefer to take my vehicle to the dealers for service. I believe BMW, MB & VW are now offering free service through the warranty period. GM should consider that. My last GMC was serviced free by the dealer with coupons sent out. I would rather they just offered it when the car is purchased. Toyota way overcharges for their service. They also very nicely tell you they will not fix things that need to be addressed. I don't believe I will use them for future non warranty service. Last time they charged me $60 for generic 30 weight oil. Wanted an additional $70 for no name synthetic. Previous GM PU trucks were generally serviced for a very nominal fee and sometimes waved, even though I bought the truck out of state. My last 20 years experience with the domestic service was much better than the last two vehicles from Toyota.
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Replying to: carnaught (Jan 11, 2009 11:30 am) |
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