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#31096 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [fintail] by ateixeira

Jan 23, 2013 (11:41 am)

Replying to: fintail (Jan 23, 2013 11:18 am)
I drove a really early V6 and thought it was a 4 banger. I can't imagine the 4 banger (sans turbo).
 
A neighbor from my previous house used to eat through those, he'd put tons of miles and I don't think he ever got more than 80k out of a trans. IIRC he went through 3 of those vans while I lived in that house, which was from 93 to 96.
 
His wife drove an Accord and owned it the whole time.

#31097 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [fintail] by dieselone

Jan 23, 2013 (11:50 am)

Replying to: fintail (Jan 23, 2013 11:18 am)
I can't even imagine a 4cyl Aerostar or Astro
 
Me either. Back in HS I knew a guy who's grandpa had a v6 Astro with a manual trans. It was pretty quick and good do some nice smokey burnouts;)
 
My grandma had a late 80's Aerostar with a 2.8 or 3.0 v6 IIRC , it certainly didn't feel fast. A 4cyl would have been a dog.

#31098 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [dieselone] by ateixeira

Jan 23, 2013 (12:03 pm)

Replying to: dieselone (Jan 23, 2013 11:50 am)
My 91 Escort GT has the same fabric on the seats (velvetty gray with red piping) as the same era Aerostar. It was a funny detail to notice.

#31099 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [busiris] by steve_ HOST

Jan 23, 2013 (12:20 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 23, 2013 9:20 am)
My wife bought a 1990 Voyager and it had the relatively new 4-speed automatic that imploded at 77K miles/4+ years.
 
We had the 4 cylinder and the transmission was fine. Had head gasket issues but the warranty at the time was 7/70 and I only wound up paying $100 for the one out of warranty repair.
 
Chrysler's minivan was one of the first concept cars I got excited about, ~5 years before they were introduced. I had driven a VW Bus for a year, but the flat floored, FWD minivan was a game changer.
 
And GM has nothing for that slot.

#31100 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [steve_] by andre1969

Jan 23, 2013 (1:07 pm)

Replying to: steve_ (Jan 23, 2013 12:20 pm)
If Ford had played their cards right, they could have claimed the title of first "car like" minivan. Iaccocca had been working on something called the Carousel when he was at Ford, and I think work on it started in 1972. Ultimately it died, and Iaccocca himself was fired, and then took over at Chrysler.
 
l1972 Ford Carousel Concept

#31101 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [andres3] by keystonecarfan

Jan 23, 2013 (1:18 pm)

Replying to: andres3 (Jan 22, 2013 12:03 pm)
Chrysler was not on the verge of collapse in 1998. Saying that just makes Daimler management look even worse - if anything, it looks even dumber than Packard management when it "merged with" (but really bought) a very sick Studebaker in 1954.
 
If Chrysler was on the verge of collapse, then why did Daimler buy it in the first place? It certainly wasn't to rescue the company. That wasn't how Daimler portrayed the merger at the time. Remember, it was Daimler that described it as a "merger of equals."
 
Daimler was building lemons before it took over Chrysler. The company hit trouble in the early 1990s, when Lexus built a car that was just as good (while offering superior reliability) as the S-Class for a much lower price.

#31102 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [busiris] by keystonecarfan

Jan 23, 2013 (1:28 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 22, 2013 12:04 pm)
The cars developed under Daimler, with the exception of the 300/Charger, were WORSE than the cars they replaced. They were developed by Daimler personnel and under Daimler guidelines. The company bears the ultimate responsibility.
 
Daimler underestimated what it would take to compete directly with Honda and Toyota during these years. When Lexus debuted, Mercedes could get by for a few years on the strength of its styling cues and heritage. Lexus had one weakness - it looked like a super-size Toyota. The Mercedes S-Class and E-Class looked like a Mercedes, which carried (and still carries) a lot of weight.
 
Dodge and Chrysler didn't have that luxury when competing directly with Honda and Toyota. Competing in the mass market is a whole different ball of wax than competing in the more rarified luxury market.

#31103 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [keystonecarfan] by fintail

Jan 23, 2013 (1:39 pm)

Replying to: keystonecarfan (Jan 23, 2013 1:28 pm)
The design of the original LS400 was pretty much cribbed from the W126, and the 2001 LS was very much related to the design of the W140. Toyota did indeed build a much more reliable/easier to maintain version of a lower line S-class, but was definitely sold at a loss for the first several years, too. And to this day, even with its positives, has a hard time competing with the original, especially on the global market.
 
I still say it was revenge. Some of the Daimler-Chrysler decisions and products didn't even appear to be trying. The three pointed star could recover from errors - it has arguably the most brand equity of any automotive logo. The Mopar brands would be handicapped for longer.

#31104 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [keystonecarfan] by lemko

Jan 23, 2013 (1:45 pm)

Replying to: keystonecarfan (Jan 23, 2013 1:18 pm)
Before Lexus, Mercedes built cars of outstanding quality as cost was not yet an object. When Mercedes tried to build cars at a cost-point as did Lexus, they fell flat on their faces.

#31105 of 32000 Re: Question about Corvair influence [keystonecarfan] by busiris

Jan 23, 2013 (2:06 pm)

Replying to: keystonecarfan (Jan 23, 2013 1:28 pm)
The cars developed under Daimler, with the exception of the 300/Charger, were WORSE than the cars they replaced. They were developed by Daimler personnel and under Daimler guidelines. The company bears the ultimate responsibility.
 
 
You're correct, in saying that the folks in charge bear ultimate responsibility.
 
Daimler underestimated what it would take to compete directly with Honda and Toyota during these years.
 
 
Correct again. I posted the very same info from an article from the time period Cerberus took control.
 
What you omitted was that GM and Ford did the very same thing (underestimating the foreign competition), yet MB had no management influence over either of them. All 3 were suffering from what I called "domestic-itus".
 
When Lexus debuted, Mercedes could get by for a few years on the strength of its styling cues and heritage. Lexus had one weakness - it looked like a super-size Toyota. The Mercedes S-Class and E-Class looked like a Mercedes, which carried (and still carries) a lot of weight.
  
Dodge and Chrysler didn't have that luxury when competing directly with Honda and Toyota. Competing in the mass market is a whole different ball of wax than competing in the more rarified luxury market.
 
Seems to me that history shows us that GM and Ford suffered from the same ailment. Unless someone can demonstrate Chrysler had a plan to effectively compete against the foreign competition (but somehow MB kept it from being implemented) it seems to me to be a moot point. Chrysler's direction was already cast in stone before MB ever took control.
 
That's the only point I'm making...

Messages Page 3111 of 3201

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