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#31011 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [andre1969] by dieselone

Jan 21, 2013 (12:28 pm)

Replying to: andre1969 (Jan 21, 2013 10:34 am)
That's because they're using that modern tech to get more performance out of the cars. Plus, the engines have gotten a bit bigger. At some point they quit using 350's and went to a 6.0
 
Except for the 5.3 which replaced the Vortec 350 in the trucks and SUVs. The 5.3 gained HP vs the 350 but is short on torque. All the power is at high rpm with the 5.3 vs. 5.7. I think the 350 torque output peaked at 2,500rpm or so vs over 4k for the 5.3.
 

#31012 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [andre1969] by busiris

Jan 21, 2013 (12:48 pm)

Replying to: andre1969 (Jan 21, 2013 10:13 am)
My former next door neighbor (they moved 2 years ago) bought a red colored 2nd generation Vue for his wife a few years back. He had (maybe still does) a Pontiac G6 hardtop convertible that he tried to swap his wife for the Vue, but she would have nothing to do with it.
 
AFAIK, their Vue has been very reliable, but I can't say how many miles it has on it. I remember liking its looks when I first saw it.

#31013 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [busiris] by michaell

Jan 21, 2013 (1:05 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 21, 2013 12:48 pm)
My family has owned 5 Saturns over the past 10 years:
 
'01 L200
'03 L300
'05 VUE
'06 ION
'08 VUE
 
The only one left is the '06 ION - my daily driver.
 
A few personal observations about Saturn ---
 
The dealership experience was second to none. My wife loved buying Saturns, since the process was so easy (all but the '01 L200 were bought new).
 
Service was great, too. Felt like a member of an extended family every time one of our vehicles was brought into the dealership.
 
The reliability of the cars was average - the '03 L300, especially, cost quite a bit to maintain after the warranty was up.
 
The panel gaps were tough to get used to, but knowing that you weren't going to get any parking lot dings sort of made up for that.
 
Overall, I was kinda sad to see Saturn "assimilated by the Borg" that was GM. I always thought it should have offered more Euro-flavored products (the Astra and Sky were too-little, too-late, IMO). But, I understood that the finances made it close to impossible for GM to continue with "a different type of car".
 
RIP.

#31014 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [michaell] by tlong

Jan 21, 2013 (1:10 pm)

Replying to: michaell (Jan 21, 2013 1:05 pm)
But, I understood that the finances made it close to impossible for GM to continue with "a different type of car".
 
Yes, but their finances didn't make it possible to continue with "the same old types of cars", either.
 
IMHO Saturn was a huge missed opportunity that they squandered.

#31015 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [tlong] by michaell

Jan 21, 2013 (1:26 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Jan 21, 2013 1:10 pm)
Yes, but their finances didn't make it possible to continue with "the same old types of cars", either.
  
IMHO Saturn was a huge missed opportunity that they squandered.
 
Agreed .. GM couldn't, or wouldn't, deal with the myriad of issues that they faced since the mid 1960's.
 
Saturn could have been much more euro focused in their product line, if GM had decided to bring over the right models.
 
Back in 2006 I wrote a document that outlined the Vauxhall (Opel) lineup and opined whether or not that model should come to the US:
 
Agila - Rebadged Daewoo. Surprisingly, I think this might be too small for the US Market, but if the Smart car gets some traction, I suppose an argument could be made for offering it as a 'city' car.
  
Corsa - As has already been mentioned, a new version is just being released, and GM is stating that the "next" iteration will be brought over to the US around 2010. Would compare with the Fit, Yaris, etc.
  
Meriva - Small MPV - smaller than the Mazda 5. Might be able to compete with the likes of the Scion xB. Looks nice and is quite configurable, seating-wise.
  
Tigra - Hardtop convertible, but looks to be a 2-seater. Probably not meant for Saturns' lineup, what with the Sky.
  
Astra - Will be brought over as the ION replacement starting next fall. World class car; lets hope GM doesn't screw it up for the US market. Will be offered as a 3-door and a 5-door.
  
Astra Twin Top - Another hardtop convertible, but this one has 4 seats. Might make life difficult for the VW Eos and Pontiac G6 Convertible, so bring it on!
  
Zafira - An MPV that is larger than the Meriva, and available with 7 seats. This one would compete with the Mazda 5 quite nicely.
  
Vectra - See Aura.
  
Signum - See Malibu Maxx, but with way better styling, IMO.
  
Monaro - Pontiac GTO; probably not for Saturn.

#31016 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [michaell] by busiris

Jan 21, 2013 (1:29 pm)

Replying to: michaell (Jan 21, 2013 1:05 pm)
The dealership experience was second to none. My wife loved buying Saturns, since the process was so easy (all but the '01 L200 were bought new).
  
Service was great, too. Felt like a member of an extended family every time one of our vehicles was brought into the dealership.
 
As your experience points out, a great dealer can overcome a mediocre product (not that yours was mediocre, but that many buyers will return again and again to a dealer - the "face" of the manufacturer - even if the product isn't superb).
 
Many domestic -3 auto owners/buyers eventually got fed up with being taken for granted by their local dealerships (I remember the local Pontiac dealer my dad bought from for years telling him "I'm not worried about you going anywhere else...". He should have been worried, because my dad, like so many others, DID go elsewhere).
 
Foreign make dealers were hungry, and many offered a higher level of service and customer relations, which, along with well manufactured products, put the squeeze on the big-3 over the years.
 
It's a lot easier, and cheaper, to keep an existing customer than it is to go out and find a new one...

#31017 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [andre1969] by ateixeira

Jan 21, 2013 (1:51 pm)

Replying to: andre1969 (Jan 21, 2013 10:34 am)
Good point, but who wants an economy V8?

#31018 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [michaell] by ateixeira

Jan 21, 2013 (1:53 pm)

Replying to: michaell (Jan 21, 2013 1:26 pm)
Meriva and Zafira were replaced with crossovers.

#31019 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [busiris] by michaell

Jan 21, 2013 (2:06 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 21, 2013 1:29 pm)
As your experience points out, a great dealer can overcome a mediocre product (not that yours was mediocre, but that many buyers will return again and again to a dealer - the "face" of the manufacturer - even if the product isn't superb).
 
Prior to the Saturns, the wife and I bought / leased 4 Fords and 1 VW. Once we became accustomed to the Saturn way of selling, it was easy for us to go back - again and again.
 
Would we have remained with Saturn had GM kept the brand alive? Possibly - the product wasn't so bad that we felt we had to go somewhere else. One of the Saturns was traded in for a MINI (also from a 'no haggle' dealer) and another was traded in for a Mazda.
 
As previously mentioned, only the '06 ION remains. 83K and still on the original brake pads. The only major issue I've had with it was that the rear struts had to be replaced a year or so ago. Every time I take it to my local shop for maintenance, they tell me what good shape the car is in, mechanically.

#31020 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [ateixeira] by andre1969

Jan 21, 2013 (2:04 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jan 21, 2013 1:51 pm)
Good point, but who wants an economy V8?
 
Well, I did, the last time I filled up my Ram. 12.3 mpg, in mostly local driving. In all fairness though, with the onset of winter, and the ultra-short trips it's had to endured, would probably kill the economy of any car. I usually put my antique cars up for the winter, but there was one year I had to press my '79 5th Ave into somewhat regular service. In that type of driving, I was getting around 8-9 mpg! And my '85 Silverado would probably get about the same.
 
So, even there, you can see the improvement over the years, with a modern 345 CID engine with something like 380 hp using 1/4-1/3 the amount of fuel that a 165 hp 305, or a 150 hp 360, uses.
 
There have been times that I've sunk the fuel economy of my 2000 Park Ave into the 15 mpg range, as well, this time of year.

Messages Page 3102 of 3200

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