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32000 messages,  Last post on Feb 14, 2013 at 7:24 PM

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#30991 of 32000 Re: Malibu 2014 [bpizzuti] by ateixeira

Jan 21, 2013 (7:47 am)

Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 21, 2013 7:45 am)
Nah, SS will be a sedan. It will sell to dads who want one of those but need 4 doors.

#30992 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [anythngbutgm] by dieselone

Jan 21, 2013 (7:51 am)

Replying to: anythngbutgm (Jan 21, 2013 7:25 am)
IIRC, the only the vertical panels like door skins and fenders were plastic. The hood, roof and trunk were either aluminum or steel (can't recall) to meet crash test standards.
  
Those plastic panels also had problems with growth and shrinkage which is why panel gaps were something like 1/4" and hardly ever were consistent.
  
I also recall the reliability on them was really good for the first couple of years and they were 99.9% "American made" having only something like (2) components that were sourced from outside Countries...
 
The hood, truck lid, and body shell were definitely aluminum and steel. So were the door frames which would definitely rust.
 
My wife, my SIL, my MIL, and a few friends had Saturns and they ranged from being okay to problematic with various issues.
 
My wife's '92 SL2 was reliable other than heavy oil use after 60-70k miles. My sister in-law bought a new '95 SC-1 that leaked trans fluid the first week she bought it. My MIL bought a '95 SL-2 which also had trans leak issues and was just a crude car by that time. It rode rough, was loud, and fit-n-finish was non existent. A friend of mine bought his wife an SC-1 the first year with the 3rd door. They ended up returning it under the (return policy) because the dealer couldn't fix water leaks around the 3rd door. The replacement wasn't much better and they didn't keep it long either.
 
IMO, Saturn was a failure. It was a good idea which in typical GM fashion was poorly executed due to GM's toxic culture. Like some have mentioned, Saturn was successful in the beginning (though I don't think it was ever financially successful). They had a cult like following with their yearly owner meetings in Spring Hill and consumer focused dealerships and purchase process. RV'ers liked them because they could be towed w/o disconnecting a drive shaft or raising the drive wheels off the ground etc.
 
But what started off as something different and successful was quickly killed by the managers of GM's other divisions. They acted like a bunch of bratty spoiled kids that felt like they shouldn't have to share resources and attention. Saturn died the day they started using parts from the GM parts bin and just became another GM brand.
 
My MIL looked at Saturn again after her '95 was needing replaced. By that time it was the Ion. Neither my MIL and FIL were remotely impressed and my MIL ended up buying a Camry and now they're even more impressed with Toyota.

#30993 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [ateixeira] by bpizzuti

Jan 21, 2013 (7:52 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jan 21, 2013 7:39 am)
Korean cars were always heavy for a long time...Daewoo never got over that. Personally I don't think Hyundai and Kia did either, their cars are lighter now, but also not as structurally stiff as they were.
 
I personally think GM should get into WRC. Ford is learning a lot about suspension and chassis tuning by being in WRC in addition to touring car racing and NASCAR. GM participates in NASCAR and WTCC but not WRC.

#30994 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [ateixeira] by dieselone

Jan 21, 2013 (7:53 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jan 21, 2013 7:39 am)
Domestic brands had good large displacement engines - the 3.8l V6 and the small block Chevy come to mind.
 
I'm only talking 4 cylinder engines. Yeah, GM certainly countered with v6 powered cars.

#30995 of 32000 Re: Malibu 2014 [ateixeira] by bpizzuti

Jan 21, 2013 (7:56 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jan 21, 2013 7:47 am)
Nah, SS will be a sedan. It will sell to dads who want one of those but need 4 doors.
 
No, it will be sold to men who's wives say "You're not getting that thing, get this so I can use it to get groceries and pick up the kids too!"

#30996 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [dieselone] by bpizzuti

Jan 21, 2013 (7:56 am)

Replying to: dieselone (Jan 21, 2013 7:53 am)
Countered? How long did they use pushrods again?

#30997 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [bpizzuti] by dieselone

Jan 21, 2013 (8:06 am)

Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 21, 2013 7:56 am)
How long did they use pushrods again?
 
To long;)

#30998 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [bpizzuti] by ateixeira

Jan 21, 2013 (8:23 am)

Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 21, 2013 7:52 am)
I dunno, HyunKias had horrible crash test scores a decade ago, now they're better.
 
Europe won't be booming for several years, I don't think the timing is right for WRC.

#30999 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [dieselone] by ateixeira

Jan 21, 2013 (8:24 am)

Replying to: dieselone (Jan 21, 2013 8:06 am)
Cam in block.
 
Hey, they worked.

#31000 of 32000 Re: Contemplate if you will... [ateixeira] by bpizzuti

Jan 21, 2013 (8:30 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jan 21, 2013 8:24 am)
They limited revs. Not that GM knew how to build an engine that could rev past 6k safely anyway, but with pushrods you can only get so many RPMs.
 
GM missed this season for WRC, but the Sonic would be an interesting rally platform if they can cut some of the weight, and the 1.4L Turbo engine is a good starting point, since current WRC rules limit things to 1.6L displacement. They could easily make the 2015 season, and could maybe squeak into 2014. Hyundai's going in in 2014 (and they really need to also, they have NO idea how to do sport chassis, steering, OR suspension).

Messages Page 3100 of 3200

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