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#30320 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [andre1969] by uplanderguy

Jan 09, 2013 (9:03 am)

Replying to: andre1969 (Jan 09, 2013 8:49 am)
It's called the "Dependability Survey" for 2009 cars in 2012:
 
http://autos.jdpower.com/content/press-release-auto/Q5wPftR/2012-u-s-vehicle-dep- endability-study.htm

#30321 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [uplanderguy] by busiris

Jan 09, 2013 (9:42 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 09, 2013 9:03 am)
From your link...
 

J.D. Power and Associates offers the following tips for consumers regarding vehicle dependability:
Consumer perceptions of vehicle quality and dependability are often based on historical experiences or anecdotes and may be out of line with the current reality. Consumers should gather as much information as they can on the latest models from a variety of sources to make an informed decision.

 
That's a good reason why readers should regard reliability rankings with some suspicion, as they're really an attempt to quantify things that aren't easily quantifiable.

#30322 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [uplanderguy] by robr2

Jan 09, 2013 (9:54 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 09, 2013 8:19 am)
It's part of their Initial Quality Survey:
 
"Raffi Festekjian, J. D. Power’s director of automotive product research, explains that the IQS was designed to capture “things gone wrong” with a vehicle. Each one is called a “problem,” and it can be “either a fault in the assembly of the vehicle or a design issue.” A fault might be a poorly assembled door panel or a loose electrical connection, while a design issue is something that a customer doesn’t like—a multifunction cruise-control stalk, for example—even though the item is performing exactly as intended."
 
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-trouble-with-jd-powers-initial-quality-- study-feature

#30323 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [robr2] by busiris

Jan 09, 2013 (10:08 am)

Replying to: robr2 (Jan 09, 2013 9:54 am)
From your link...
 
Part of the disconnect stems from most people’s tendency to equate quality with an absence of defects. Back in the Eighties, when Japanese car­makers were grabbing market share from domestic companies on the strength of their superior assembly quality, many of us thought of automotive quality primarily in those terms. But Webster’s concise definition of quality is “the degree of excellence which a thing possesses.” And the J.D. Power IQS has always taken this broader view.
 
This is exactly what I was referring to when I stated the surveys attempt to quantify things not easily, or in some cases at all possible to quantify.
 
Can someone define quantitatively a "great tasting steak" in a manner in which the general population would agree 100%? We can certainly define and quantify proper steak preparation and cooking methodology, but taste is subjective.
 
More from the link...
 
In a different vein, Porsche has struggled with brake-pad choice because of the IQS. The pads that deliver the best fade resistance and wet-braking performance are also those that generate more wheel-soiling, IQS-complaint–generating dust.
 
One hopes that the customers who complain about the brake dust in the IQS are somewhat offset by those who praise the brakes in Power’s Automotive Performance, Execution, and Layout (APEAL) study, which is designed to capture “things gone right” about a vehicle. It’s attached to the IQS questionnaire, so it draws from the same population of respondents.
 
Unfortunately, the results of the APEAL study don’t get the play the IQS does, suggesting that moves toward the lowest-common-denominator solutions to reduce design “problems” will continue. When a large majority of IQS-reported problems were defects, the survey was a powerful force in the drive toward automotive quality. But the gap between defects and design problems is closing. “In 2011,” according to ­Festekjian, “there were still slightly more defects than design problems, but it’s getting closer every  year.”

#30324 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [busiris] by robr2

Jan 09, 2013 (10:14 am)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 09, 2013 10:08 am)
This is exactly what I was referring to when I stated the surveys attempt to quantify things not easily, or in some cases at all possible to quantify.
 
I'm not debating that. I was just pointing out that JD Power counts what one person considers a flaw (dusty brake pads) the same as a real defect (missing brake pads).

#30325 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [robr2] by busiris

Jan 09, 2013 (10:24 am)

Replying to: robr2 (Jan 09, 2013 10:14 am)
I'm not debating that. I was just pointing out that JD Power counts what one person considers a flaw (dusty brake pads) the same as a real defect (missing brake pads).
 
Oh, I'm in complete agreement with you. I think we're saying the exact same thing.

#30326 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [busiris] by uplanderguy

Jan 09, 2013 (10:46 am)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 09, 2013 10:24 am)
What I posted, is not the "Initial Quality Survey". It's the 'dependability survey' of 2009 models after three years. Not the same thing. Dusty brake pads? Not 'dependability'.

#30327 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [uplanderguy] by ateixeira

Jan 09, 2013 (11:07 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 09, 2013 8:19 am)
The Hummer gas complaints affected the 90 day Initial Quality score, they said because it did not meet customers' expectations. For that GVWR label no Monroney was required, so naive customers had no idea what to expect.
 
IMHO JDP is not even measuring reliability in that study.
 
Not sure how the Dependability study differs but I'm sure someone will chime in.
 
Mini is funny because they've been a the top of the APEAL study and at the bottom of the IQS study at the same time.

#30328 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [uplanderguy] by busiris

Jan 09, 2013 (11:17 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 09, 2013 10:46 am)
And, once again I'll post a comment from the Dependability Study...
 
"Consumer perceptions of vehicle quality and dependability are often based on historical experiences or anecdotes and may be out of line with the current reality. Consumers should gather as much information as they can on the latest models from a variety of sources to make an informed decision."

#30329 of 32000 Re: 3 years isn't enough [busiris] by uplanderguy

Jan 09, 2013 (12:06 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 09, 2013 11:17 am)
Obviously. They're saying you can't always tell how a current car can be from a previous one.
 
I've been saying that all along.

Messages Page 3033 of 3200

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