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GM News, New Models and Market Share - READ ONLY

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#30271 of 32000 Re: year end rehash [uplanderguy] by busiris

Jan 08, 2013 (11:30 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 08, 2013 9:28 am)
Well, per Power, 2009 models overall for Chevrolet are better than Audi, VW, Benz, BMW, Subaru, and Nissan. That's not 'new model' stuff.
 
I understand your point here, but your comparative selections aren't really appropriate, except maybe for Nissan.
 
Chevrolet isn't by any stretch of the imagination in the luxury vehicle market, which is exactly where BMW, MB, and Audi target their products.
 
Having owned both "Everyman" and "Luxury" vehicles, I can tell you from personal experience that the quality I might find acceptable in a S-10 pickup would be totally unacceptable in a BMW 328.
 
VW is in the competition car-wise, but doesn't offer pickups, a large segment of Chevrolet sales. Vw should be on the same level if one is rating quality and construction.
 
And Subaru is definitely in a "niche" market and doesn't even come close to being a market-wide player. Most buyers of Subarus are not your typical GM car buyer. AFAIK, every Subaru has a boxer engine, so it has limited variance within individual model power trains.
 
Nissan is perhaps a suitable target comparison, since it offers a similar product lineup in cars and it sells pickup trucks.
 
IMO, its like comparing the sales of handbags by Walmart and Gucci. Walmart will always sell more due to price, and most buyers of high-line Gucci handbags aren't the least bit interested in what handbags Walmart has on the shelf.

#30272 of 32000 Re: GM regains crown! [bpizzuti] by busiris

Jan 08, 2013 (11:38 am)

Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 08, 2013 11:05 am)
From your link...
 
Topping the sales charts for the feds was the Chevrolet Malibu, with 4,341 sold at an average transaction price of $15,778.
 
That price seems a bit below market value, as its the average price. The current base price listed on the Chevrolet web-site is $21,995.

#30273 of 32000 Re: Opinions [keystonecarfan] by andre1969

Jan 08, 2013 (12:00 pm)

Replying to: keystonecarfan (Jan 08, 2013 11:01 am)
That didn't happen until 1980, when the Fox-based Thunderbird and Cougar XR-7 appeared to take on the Cutlass Supreme/Regal/Grand Prix/Monte Carlo, followed by the 1981 Granada and Cougar.
 
Things really got jumbled up in the late 70's, as GM was really the only manufacturer to offer a truly new downsized intermediate platform, with the '78 Malibu et/al. Ford and Mopar just took their compact cars, restyled them a bit, and tried to pass them off as intermediates.
 
In 1978, Consumer Reports actually got rid of their "intermediate" category for cars. Everything was either "subcompact", "compact", or "large". "Compact" included the Nova, Granada, Fairmont, Aspen/Volare, and Diplomat/LeBaron, but also the newly-downsized Malibu and company. "Old school" intermediates, such as the Fury/Monaco, Cordoba, LTD-II/Cougar and Thunderbird were actually grouped in as "large cars", along with the Caprice, Impala and the old mastodons like the Newport/New Yorker and the full-sized Ford products.
 
Actually, I wonder if they dropped the "midsize" category in 1977? That year, when they tested a Caprice sedan, they compared it to an LTD-II, a Cutlass Supreme, and a Fury or Monaco. They called them all "large" cars, and said that nobody needed anything bigger, so they refused to test anything like an LTD, Marquis, Gran Fury, or Newport/New Yorker, etc.
 
I guess you could argue that Ford never came up with a truly new "downsized" intermediate until the 1986 Taurus/Sable? And since Chrysler started basing everything off of the K-car, a compact, for them a "new" intermediate wouldn't arrive until the 1993 Intrepid/Concorde? Those were marketed as full-sized cars by that time, but I think the EPA classified them as midsized, because they came in slightly under the "full size" threshold.

#30274 of 32000 Re: year end rehash [busiris] by uplanderguy

Jan 08, 2013 (11:59 am)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 08, 2013 11:30 am)
The chart isn't about 'owner satisfaction', it's about problems. I think you're implying that we should be OK with more problems if it's a higher-end vehicle.

#30275 of 32000 Re: GM regains crown! [busiris] by andre1969

Jan 08, 2013 (12:06 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 08, 2013 11:38 am)
That price seems a bit below market value, as its the average price. The current base price listed on the Chevrolet web-site is $21,995.
 
That was for the fiscal year ended September 30, so those would have all been the old style Malibu. Unless they were dumping ECOs into government fleets, which could be possible. We ended up getting a Fusion hybrid or two, although my project ended up with an Impala.
 
Also, the government doesn't have to pay sales tax on those cars, so that will keep the transaction price down lower, as well. I remember back in 1996 or so, we got five Oldsmobile Achievas for $65,000 total. Or, $13K apiece.
 
I thought that was pretty cheap at the time. But, adjusting for inflation, and considering what a major improvement the Malibu is, $15,778 is dirt-cheap in comparison!

#30276 of 32000 Re: Opinions [andre1969] by keystonecarfan

Jan 08, 2013 (12:22 pm)

Replying to: andre1969 (Jan 08, 2013 12:00 pm)
It's interesting how much richer GM was than even its two domestic rivals in those days. Its downsizing effort was much more elaborate and comprehensive than those of either Ford or Chrysler.
 
When the 1977 GM full-size cars debuted, they were huge critical and sales successes. Everyone knew that Chrysler and Ford would have to follow suit, given the success of those cars and the pressures of CAFE. The GM cars made everything else seem outdated.
 
Consumer Reports may have wanted to make a statement by not testing anything larger than the GM full-size cars, but all of us knew that the Ford and Chrysler offerings were ultimately obsolete products biding their time.
 
The first Taurus, ironically enough, did the same thing to the contemporary GM and Chrysler offerings that the 1977 GM full-size cars did to their competitors - make them look old-fashioned and obsolete. In 1986, GM's competitors in this class were the four-year-old A-body Celebrity/Century/Cutlass Ciera/A6000, while Chrysler was still peddling stretched K-cars.

#30277 of 32000 Re: Chevy no longer "runs deep" [tlong] by bpizzuti

Jan 08, 2013 (12:33 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Jan 08, 2013 11:23 am)
Oh I'm sure we can pick on the new one too (Find new roads because it can't handle the road you're on, hah!), but I like how Chevy is at least trying to talk about the car and the drive now.

#30278 of 32000 Re: GM regains crown! [busiris] by bpizzuti

Jan 08, 2013 (12:35 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 08, 2013 11:38 am)
Fleet sales, as I've mentioned repeatedly, are not nearly as lucrative as retail sales. Fleets demand, and generally get, bulk discounts, and know they have the whip hand when it comes to any negotiation. They also know they're getting the models that most people don't want in some cases.

#30279 of 32000 Re: year end rehash [uplanderguy] by busiris

Jan 08, 2013 (1:10 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 08, 2013 11:59 am)
The chart isn't about 'owner satisfaction', it's about problems. I think you're implying that we should be OK with more problems if it's a higher-end vehicle.
 
No, exactly the opposite.
 
I'm far more likely to accept minor issues on a $300 Hotpoint refrigerator than a $3000 SubZero refrigerator, therefore I'm far more likely to complain or respond to a survey with an issue on a higher priced product than a base-line, economy product... As I suspect most people are as well.
 
Besides, typically a higher priced vehicle has far more options, which means far more potential things to break and cause problems.
 
The iDrive controller will NEVER be a problem on a Malibu...

#30280 of 32000 Re: GM regains crown! [andre1969] by busiris

Jan 08, 2013 (1:15 pm)

Replying to: andre1969 (Jan 08, 2013 12:06 pm)
Also, the government doesn't have to pay sales tax on those cars, so that will keep the transaction price down lower, as well. I remember back in 1996 or so, we got five Oldsmobile Achievas for $65,000 total. Or, $13K apiece.
 
Sales tax really isn't a factor at all, as it isn't included in any new car pricing on its web site.
 
I guess as a taxpayer, I appreciate the low cost of he vehicles. As a GM co-owner, I'm not so appreciative...

Messages Page 3028 of 3200

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