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32000 messages,  Last post on Feb 14, 2013 at 7:24 PM

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Messages Page 3021 of 3201

#30198 of 32000 Re: Dec sales [busiris] by bpizzuti

Jan 05, 2013 (7:04 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Jan 05, 2013 6:49 pm)
Hasn't worked yet, GM has always reserved the "Chevy Classic" nameplate as "fleet only," but everyone knew that it was really a certain model, and that model got dragged down.
 
Given that the Captiva is really a Saturn Vue, the Vue would probably be being dragged down. Except it's probably not physically possible to drag it down further.
 
I do see some logic for something that will only ever be fleet, a nameplate or even a brand. Except not many outside of the Crown Vic have been what you might call "successful." Remember Checker? London Cab is in trouble too.
 
On the other hand, rather than shutting down Saturn, they could have made Saturn the "Fleet Division." I think that would have been worthwhile.

#30199 of 32000 Re: Dec sales [uplanderguy] by andres3

Jan 05, 2013 (8:27 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 05, 2013 6:50 pm)
The 2013 CR buyer's guide is confirmed to have ratings on both the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder Malibus separately.
 
Both get a lot of black dots from 2009 and older, which tells me right off the bat GM is still building cars to fall completely apart after the 3 year bumper to bumper warranty expires.

#30200 of 32000 Re: Dec sales [bpizzuti] by steve_ HOST

Jan 05, 2013 (8:52 pm)

Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 05, 2013 7:04 pm)
On the other hand, rather than shutting down Saturn, they could have made Saturn the "Fleet Division." I think that would have been worthwhile.
 
If they hadn't shut down Saturn, they'd have to mollify the dealers somehow - I wonder how many would have lasted just doing fleet sales? GM still wound up with a fleet vehicle and all they mostly did was change the badging and drop some engine choices that the Vue had.

#30201 of 32000 Re: Dec sales [uplanderguy] by tlong

Jan 05, 2013 (9:17 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 05, 2013 6:50 pm)
tlong, can you kindly confirm that the CR Buyer's Guide has a separate chart for reliability of V6 Malibu, than the 4 cyl. Malibu. It should, since it's just a repeat of the April issue. I haven't seen that confirmed yet. Thank you in advance...really.
 
Yes, the 4 and 6 cyls are listed separately. That's the publication I meant when I said Dec 2012, since it comes out in place of the normal magazine every Dec.

#30202 of 32000 Re: Dec sales [andres3] by uplanderguy

Jan 06, 2013 (2:43 am)

Replying to: andres3 (Jan 05, 2013 8:27 pm)
What are the overall ratings? Don't they also have a rating for 'cost'? How 'bout 2009 Audis, VW's, Subarus, Infinitis, M-B's, BMW's, Minis, Mazdas, and Nissans? Just curious how closely CR correlates to JDP.

#30203 of 32000 Re: Dec sales [uplanderguy] by uplanderguy

Jan 06, 2013 (2:44 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 06, 2013 2:43 am)
tlong, do you subscribe? If so, you didn't see the two issues I saw recently, one showing the Focus to be least reliable in its class and the Mazda 6 the least-'liked' car by owners in its class?

#30204 of 32000 GM Card earnings.... by uplanderguy

Jan 06, 2013 (4:28 am)

Just got a mailer from GM card. They are 'topping off' my current earnings to $2K right now, for any remaining 2012 or new 2013 GM models...with one exception.
 
The Camaro ZL1.
 
Man, they can't give those things away.

#30205 of 32000 Re: GM Card earnings.... [uplanderguy] by uplanderguy

Jan 06, 2013 (5:51 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Jan 06, 2013 4:28 am)
Just got back from the store. The CR on the stands now is called "Best and Worst Cars" and features reliability charts through 2012 models. The 2012 Focus is much worse than average. The 2012 Cruze is average. The 2011 Malibu is better-than-average (what we have). Same year Fusion is average.
 
There is no Malibu V6 chart, but I'll concede that is probably because there is no longer a new V6 Malibu to buy.
 
As usual (and IMHO only), the overall charts are all over the place. Black one year, red the next, for years I know place of manufacture and major componentry didn't change. Late-model Suburban, worse than average. Late-model Tahoe, better than average. We can argue it all day (and I won't), but I can't believe there's that much componentry, or even body, differences between the two to account for a two-notch difference.
 
As Andre smartly pointed out once, and I agree...the variations from year-to-year aren't necessarily the difference in that car from year-to-year, but compared to all cars in a given model year. I don't think it's necessarily promoted much as that, but that seems very logical.

#30206 of 32000 It's all about opinion by imidazol97

Jan 06, 2013 (6:18 am)

The argument about CR's methodology is like feeling the elephant for the blind man. They don't release enough data for their convenience questionnaire upon which their dots are based. They don't release their criteria for half-black, open, red, half-red, because they base it on relativity, without the basis upon which the physics world bases theirs. So if they have a 6-cylinder Malibu separation, upon which how many Malibu alleged owners reported? And how random is the sample of the people giving data?
 
Arguing CR is like arguing about the Bengals, or politics. Enjoy the read and put in some common sense into the reading and parsing of the information.

#30207 of 32000 Re: It's all about opinion [imidazol97] by uplanderguy

Jan 06, 2013 (6:26 am)

Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 06, 2013 6:18 am)
I don't hate it...I look it at and find it interesting, same as car rags reviews, and it's nice when they agree with me...but if they don't, I still buy based on what I want, instead of 'so and so said it's really great'. But I do chuckle (and have through the years) at how their info is pretty-much presented as 'hard fact' and how people often take it as just that.

Messages Page 3021 of 3201

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