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8060 messages, Last post on Nov 09, 2009 at 5:54 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: dave8697 (Dec 27, 2008 5:54 pm) Honda pays a paltry $320 wages to the american assembly worker for making their car here. Assembly is a very *small* part of the labor going into making a car. Other US labor used in Honda vehicles: - Parts manufacturing (most of it in US for many Honda cars) - Engine plants - Parts transport - Assembly plant maintenance, overhead, management - Parts plant maintenance, overhead, management - Plant electricity, water, sewage, gas, etc. - all provided by US workers - Honda USA in California who puts together marketing and handles corporate customer service - Transportation of Hondas from assembly plants to the dealers on trains and trucks, all US labor - Honda dealerships: sales, administrative, service, maintenance, etc. - Honda advertising put together by advertising agencies in the US We are all pissed because GM will get a $9 billion loan to keep 900,000 jobs. GM does not have 900,000 jobs. You are drinking the UAW kool-aid. We keep hearing about how GM is labor competitive with the D3. So that means GM only pays around $320 labor per vehicle assembled, just like Honda. If you want to compare apples to apples then include all of the Honda-affected jobs just like all the GM -affected jobs. Not this foolish $320 vs. 900,000 jobs comparison which is total nonsense. Use the same comparison rather than slanting your argument so ridiculously that it means nothing. Or does the real argument not hold water? If Obama's plan is as good as GM's at job creation, his stimulus package will create 90 million jobs. 20 times as many as we could use. GM is good at job creation? Tell me where a $9billion loan is going to *create* ANY jobs. GM has been killing jobs left and right for 30 years. At least in this country, not so in China, Mexico, and Europe. You're probably trying to imply that a $9billion loan saves 900K jobs. Obama is trying to create jobs. GM is trying not to lose tons of jobs, which is a big difference. Using the same flawed logic as above, you also forget that the $9billion is just a down payment on $100billion or more to keep General Titanic Motors afloat for a few years until they eventually fail unless they make radical changes that they have not yet made. Like focusing more on quality vehicles rather than how many brands and dealers they can have. GM has had to cheapen its vehicles so much in the past 20 years to stay cost competitive that the quality difference showed. GM has lost over half its market share. If you are one of the few surviving UAW workers then the protected life has been good. All others have been screwed. Think of all the GM dealerships' staff that have lost their jobs over the past 5 years due to the UAW sucking all the resources for itself. There's some real American pride. |
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China is pretty much the anti-industry(think Anti-Christ for appropriate emphasis here). You're on the verge of touching a very sensitive issue here. Just a friendly advice, careful with the choice of words there.   I agree with the "built in US" issue. With so many parts of GM cars, hell all D3 cars for that matter, produced abroad, plus some built elsewhere then shipped to US, I wonder if the products still qualify as American made. |
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Dec 28, 2008 5:53 am) And what exactly is the penalty for fudging that, anyway? Probably nothing more than a slap on the wrist. |
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GM does not have 900,000 jobs. You are drinking the UAW kool-aid. We keep hearing about how GM is labor competitive with the D3. So that means GM only pays around $320 labor per vehicle assembled, just like Honda. GM by itself doesnt have 900k jobs, it's the total of factory workforce, parts suppliers, dealers, etc,etc that leads to a total of hundreds of thousands. I personally believe that only about half of that number will actually lose jobs, and not even for that long. But 900k is a ridiculous number imo. Like I mentioned earlier so many parts for GM cars are made overseas, I cant really believe some of those "parts suppliers" even exist. My prediction: some parts suppliers will still live, supplying parts to other makers instead. Some dealers will fold, a few start selling other brands, the same as assembly workers. Another point, within a few years companies will come in and cherry pick the GM assets, then a new company emerges, employees will be called back. The good apples will stay alive, the bad ones... oh well, who cares about them anyway. If Obama's plan is as good as GM's at job creation... What the??????? LMAO, nice joke, Dave... goodness, this is too hilarious... 
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Dec 28, 2008 5:53 am) We have to protect the jobs, and not just the "big 3". Every plant that makes a car in the U.S. needs to be seen by the public as vital. For instance, if the NUUMI plant in California were to close, that would take one billion a year in primary and secondary costs out of the economy here. If Honda's plants closed and stopped making cars, it would be a similar disaster. I think what needs to be done is a big media campaign. One that puts the focus on "Made in the U.S.A." and not where the company's headquarters is. And, yes, it should give GM and Ford grief for making vehicles in Mexico and then whining to The Government about needing money to prop up those foreign interests.
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 28, 2008 11:34 am) I guess the only way to return investments and manufacturing jobs back to US is to lower costs again. This includes labor wages and other operational aspects, at least back to the point where it can become competitive again with outsourcing. How that can happen is something I'm honestly still trying to figure out 
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Dec 29, 2008 7:33 am) |
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Dec 29, 2008 7:33 am) Then, we can create jobs the old fashioned way because an honest living can by the goods others create and make. We can't pay $4.50/gal. for milk and tax people at 30% and expect them to spend money to by the products other people make. Unless you buy everything on credit and care less when you can pay it back. Sound familiar? Regards, OW |
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Take a look at US CAR Sales through November 2008...Ridiculous! This is their best?? Top 20 Vehicle Sales YTD vs. 2007 Model YTD 2008 % Chng 2007 Ford F - Series PU 473,933 -25.4 Chevrolet Silverado PU 431,725 -23.5 Toyota Camry / Solara 411,342 -5.3 Toyota Corolla / Matrix 328,878 -4.1 Honda Civic 321,987 5.9 Honda Accord 350,441 -2.9 Dodge Ram PU 229,222 -29.7 Chevrolet Impala 244,692 -16.6 Honda CR-V 183,346 -8.6 Nissan Altima 252,357 -2.8 GMC Sierra PU 155,564 -17.5 Ford Escape 145,577 -4.4 Chevrolet Malibu 159,733 51.8 Toyota RAV4 128,225 -19.3 Ford Fusion 137,295 0.9 Toyota Prius 151,025 -9.6 Toyota Tacoma PU 135,962 -15 Ford Focus 184,152 15.7 Toyota Highlander 96,870 -14.4 Chrysler Town & Country 110,411 -10.9 The Big 3 sold 775,872 cars vs. 1,665,005 by the A3 in the top 20. Real nice, eh? Regards, OW
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Replying to: circlew (Dec 29, 2008 12:16 pm) I am really confused on why is the Cobalt not there? They have sold 175,259 thru November (-4.2%) Where does this data come from? Some of it does not agree with published data. Impala is correct but the Malibu is low. The G6 also sold 132,534 (down .3%) which would have been about 17th on this list. Whys is the Impala listed below Dodge Ram? The numbers are 08 so they are not reordered for 08??? What is an A3? But the numbers are from a different socio/economic time. For this coming year it will be more like what has happened from October on which will be very interesting. Pretty much all compact and subcompact vehicles (including Hybrids) have plummeted around 70%. Look for the Cobalt/Civic/Corolla/Prius to go to the bottom of the list and perhaps drop off.
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