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#29131 of 32000 Re: Consumer Reports continues to conspire [uplanderguy] by tlong

Dec 07, 2012 (4:46 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Dec 07, 2012 3:56 pm)
I don't recall horrible crash test results for the Dusbusters. The offset crash in the Venture et al were poor I recall.
 
Here's the video for the 97-05 models, it looks pretty horrible to me:
Crash video
 
I guess the IIHS is just pro-import.
 
I didn't find any video for the first "dustbusters" but I wonder how they could have been better, only to have GM make them worse with a redesign? It looks like it was the earlier models that were poor; the later designs did better:
 
Early years, overall Poor: '97-05
 
Redesigns, overall Good: Redesigned post '05
 
But these are the sorts of reasons that people sometimes call GM designs junky. Their competition of the same era had no problem achieving Good ratings.
 
Odyssey for the earlier years (overall Good): Early Odyssey
 
And the Sienna, overall Good: Early Sienna

#29132 of 32000 Re: Consumer Reports continues to conspire [busiris] by andre1969

Dec 07, 2012 (4:33 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Dec 07, 2012 4:01 pm)
Now, I can't imagine what GM model GM thinks a Cruze hatchback would steal sales from.

 
I wonder if GM just thinks it's too big of a hatch for your typical domestic buyer? Hatchbacks sell well in the US, up to a size point. And cars like the Cruze, Dart, Civic, and Sentra, are pushing the limit of what a "compact" car is, to the point that the EPA actually classifies them as midsized cars. But, the likes of the Focus and Corolla are still compacts. I believe the Mazda3 is, too.
 
The Elantra, however, is another car that's a "big compact" and classified as a midsize, but it offers both sedan and hatch. However, that GT hatch looks like it's a bit shorter than the sedan, so it might lose a bit of functionality.
 
With regards to the Corolla/Matrix, I wonder how many Matrixes they sell these days? I see newer Corollas all over the place, but the Matrix seems pretty rare in comparison.
 
The Sentra makes sense as a sedan-only IMO, because if you want a hatch they have the Versa, and it's not that much smaller.
 
I wonder if GM worries that a Cruze hatch would steal sales from a more profitable vehicle...namely the Equinox?

#29133 of 32000 Re: Consumer Reports continues to conspire [tlong] by busiris

Dec 07, 2012 (5:32 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Dec 07, 2012 4:46 pm)
Here's the video for the 97-05 models, it looks pretty horrible to me:
 
In a word... Ouch!

#29134 of 32000 Re: Consumer Reports continues to conspire [tlong] by uplanderguy

Dec 07, 2012 (6:28 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Dec 07, 2012 4:46 pm)
Um, tlong...the '97-05 aren't the 'Dustbusters'. Your video confirms my earlier post. The Venture was a European-based design IIRC. I don't believe the Dustbusters were.
 
We had two Ventures, a '99 and an '02. The '99 was the only vehicle we've ever leased. The '02, we bought. Both were good vehicles and the wife drove them mostly. At the time, we liked the power sliding door (right side only) and the rear seat (separate) audio, which we got on both. Good crashworthiness is a good thing obviously, but it wouldn't keep me from buying a vehicle I otherwise liked, from a dealer I trusted...i.e., it's not the main thing I'm buying...just like 'tactile' switches over interior space and choices in models, colors, options, etc.

#29135 of 32000 Re: Consumer Reports continues to conspire [busiris] by fezo

Dec 07, 2012 (6:16 pm)

Replying to: busiris (Dec 07, 2012 5:32 pm)
I remember trying out all the vans in the early 90s and remember the dismal crash tests on the dustbusters vs. the Windstall (which we bought - it had a great crash rating which was just as well because the thing would die periodically when out and about). I think the Chyslers were in the middle then.
 
The guy selling the dustbusters was by far the most aggressive of the sales people which was funny because it was third on our list of three vans. Would that I had left well enough alone on that. Oh, well...

#29136 of 32000 Re: Consumer Reports continues to conspire [uplanderguy] by tlong

Dec 07, 2012 (6:51 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Dec 07, 2012 6:28 pm)
Um, tlong...the '97-05 aren't the 'Dustbusters'. Your video confirms my earlier post. The Venture was a European-based design IIRC. I don't believe the Dustbusters were.
 
I'm fully aware of that - my hypothesis was that if it was a redesign, then I doubt they would have been worse, so likely the earlier ones were horrible, too. But if it is as you say (where the older models were COMPLETELY different from the '97-05), then I stand corrected. But if so, then GM went from safer to more dangerous vehicles for the sake of styling. And that's not a good story, either.
 
Which case is it?

#29137 of 32000 andres3... by iluvmysephia1

Dec 07, 2012 (10:49 pm)

Technology gone wrong though.... B of A ATM's, yes, you don't need to use envelopes for deposits, but dang, it takes at least 5 times longer to do anything and everything compared to 80's era ATM's.
 
Try Wells Fargo's ATM's - never had a problem with them at all and IMHO they're pretty fast-actin', too.

#29138 of 32000 Re: Consumer Reports continues to conspire [bpizzuti] by fho2008

Dec 08, 2012 (2:58 am)

Replying to: bpizzuti (Dec 07, 2012 2:37 pm)
Dont forget the VW Golf, Jetta Sportwagen and Audi A3.

#29139 of 32000 Re: Consumer Reports continues to conspire by uplanderguy

Dec 08, 2012 (5:22 am)

Replying to: fho2008 (Dec 08, 2012 2:58 am)
When the Dustbusters were introduced, the vast majority of cars didn't even have a single airbag, so was NHTSA even doing the offset crash test yet? I ask because I don't know.

#29140 of 32000 Re: Consumer Reports continues to conspire [fho2008] by bpizzuti

Dec 08, 2012 (6:21 am)

Replying to: fho2008 (Dec 08, 2012 2:58 am)
The A3 is a little too lux to compete in the regular compact class, but the Golf definitely does, you're right. Wasn't actually counting wagons, but I guess the Jetta SPortwagen could also qualify...then again, would both count as the same model?
 
Bottom line, GM's really going against the industry trend of offering a hatch option. I've seen the Cruze hatch, and it's fairly sweet.
 
I hear Toyota may axe the Matrix when the Corolla is redesigned, but they could also bring a Corolla hatch. With so much of their competition selling hatches they may give in. I doubt Honda will, but Honda almost doesn't need to: the Fit's got a more comfortable back seat than the Civic anyway. Then again, Honda might as well.
 
GM has the Sonic hatch, I'd love to know their actual non-fleet sales mix of hatch vs sedan on those. When you're dealing with compact and smaller cars, space efficiency is important, and hatches provide the flexibility to reconfigure for either passengers or cargo, something you can't really do with a trunk.
 
Anyway, GM's really holding tight to the antiquated notion that Americans don't buy hatcbacks. It's possible GM buyers don't buy hatches. Or it's possible Americans don't buy GM. But given Ford, Mazda, Subaru, VW, etc etc, it's pretty clear Americans DO in fact buy hatchbacks.

Messages Page 2914 of 3200

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