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#26812 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [uplanderguy] by bpizzuti

Sep 11, 2012 (10:24 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Sep 11, 2012 10:22 am)
but Aztek, Ion, Mustang II, and Cimarron really do not belong on that particular list,
 
Says who? They stunk. I've driven all of them at one point or another. What criteria are you using to say they don't belong there other than warm fuzzy memories for days gone by?

#26813 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [uplanderguy] by andre1969

Sep 11, 2012 (10:45 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Sep 11, 2012 10:22 am)
Yeah, I'd love to know what their criteria is for "worst car". Whenever I think of "worst car", the first thing I think of is reliability and how troublesome it is. But, I guess you can factor in things like safety (Pinto), styling (Aztek) sales flop (Edsel), or going someplace your brand has no business going (Cimarron).
 
But, even based on these criteria, consider...
 
The Aztek ushered in a new era of automotive style. Suddenly, cars didn't have to have cohesive styling. They could just throw any shapes and angles and odd proportions together and go with what stuck.
 
For all the "Barbecue That Seats Four" Brewhaha, overall death rates for the Ford Pinto were slightly better than average for cars in its class. So, chances are that you were more likely to die in some other small car, although you were more likely to die by fire in the Pinto. And the Pinto sold well from its birth in 1971 right up through the end in 1980.
 
The Edsel was considered a flop, yet overcrowding in the mid-priced market and a serious recession that seemed to zero in on that exact market probably took their toll more than poor build quality, gas guzzling engines (these things had oversized engines and were almost musclecars for their day), or awkward, sexually-suggestive styling did. Ford's forecast for the 1958 Edsel was 100,000 units. They sold about 63,000-64,000, about the same as Chrysler. Meanwhile, everybody in the middle-priced market was seeing serious declines in sales over 1957. DeSoto was down by 58%. Dodge was off by about 52%. Mercury was off by around 53%. GM weathered it a little better, with Pontiac being down about 35%, Buick down about 40% and the ugly '58 Olds only down about 25%. So, Edsel was down about 36-37% from forecasts. Not *that* big of a flop when taken into the context of how far the others fell.
 
The Cimarron was an insult to the Cadillac badge, but IMO, they weren't bad looking little cars. I think the big damage to them came in 1984, when the Cavalier went to a 4-headlight setup and eggcrate grille that made it look too similar. And, the Cimarron still managed to move 20-25,000 units per year from 1982-86 (~15K in 1987 and only about 7K for 1988). I'm sure every one they sold, even at a deep discount, still represented a lot of profit.
 
Personally, I'd think the 1986 Hundai Excel deserves a spot in that top ten list. Hyundai has come an awfully long way, but those early Excels were crap! I can't think of anything nice to say about them, except that they were cheap.
 
BMW Isetta shouldn't be on that list because they're talking about cars. Not unreasonable facsimiles of cars.

#26814 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [bpizzuti] by andre1969

Sep 11, 2012 (10:49 am)

Replying to: bpizzuti (Sep 11, 2012 10:24 am)
Says who? They stunk. I've driven all of them at one point or another. What criteria are you using to say they don't belong there other than warm fuzzy memories for days gone by?
 
Those cars might have stunk. They might have been even awful. But, were they really so bad that you'd consider them among the ten worst of all time?
 
Now I'm not arguing about them being bad cars, not by a long shot. I just think that there was a whole lot out there that was much, much worse!
 
I think the best thing to do with these types of lists is just read over the comments and opinions, take a trip down memory lane, and not think too much into them.

#26815 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [bpizzuti] by uplanderguy

Sep 11, 2012 (10:58 am)

Replying to: bpizzuti (Sep 11, 2012 10:24 am)
Well, mostly, reliability and/or how they held up compared to other vehicles in their era and price class.

#26816 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [uplanderguy] by ateixeira

Sep 11, 2012 (11:09 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Sep 11, 2012 10:58 am)
Look at the bright side - no current or even recent models on there.
 
Put differently, nothing in the current lineup would make a future worst list.

#26817 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [ateixeira] by uplanderguy

Sep 11, 2012 (11:15 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 11, 2012 11:09 am)
A future list would include the "Ten Most Boring/Vanilla Cars", I'm afraid.

#26818 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [uplanderguy] by ateixeira

Sep 11, 2012 (11:17 am)

Replying to: uplanderguy (Sep 11, 2012 11:15 am)
People consume lots of vanilla ice cream. Those may not excite us, but they pay the bills so they can keep making Rocky Road flavors.

#26819 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [ateixeira] by anythngbutgm

Sep 11, 2012 (11:54 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 11, 2012 11:17 am)
I would guess that the percentage of real "car enthusiasts" is probably in the tenth of a percentile... For the rest, a car is nothing more than a utensile to get them back and forth from point A to B, reliably, comfortably and with plenty of "gadgets" to make the time pass by painlessly.
 
And companies like Toyota have made it their business model which is one of the big reasons they have made it as far as they have.
 
Much to the disappointment and citicism of the rest of us "enthusiasts"

#26820 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [anythngbutgm] by ateixeira

Sep 11, 2012 (11:59 am)

Replying to: anythngbutgm (Sep 11, 2012 11:54 am)
If they held a focus group with all of us, all they'd ever build are diesel station wagons with manuals!

#26821 of 32000 Re: GM takes 6 of Top Ten [andre1969] by busiris

Sep 11, 2012 (12:19 pm)

Replying to: andre1969 (Sep 11, 2012 10:49 am)

 I think the best thing to do with these types of lists is just read over the comments and opinions, take a trip down memory lane, and not think too much into them.
 
I agree.
 
List like this are soooooo subjective...
 
Back in the 1930's, Chrysler developed the Airflow design, which wasn't very well received at the time (probably made someone's list of 10 worse cars of all time back then), but take a look today at how much technology from that design is incorporated into today's cars, much like many SAV designs can be traced back to the Aztek.
 
I can't remember which, but its either Hyundai or Kia that recalls the Airflow in one of its commercials. That's rather unusual, using a different manufacturer's product to sell yours....

Messages Page 2683 of 3201

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