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Messages Page 2443 of 3201

#24413 of 32000 Re: New Malibu [ateixeira] by busiris

May 08, 2012 (12:02 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (May 08, 2012 11:10 am)
Agreed!

#24414 of 32000 Re: Open minds... [uplanderguy] by tlong

May 08, 2012 (12:50 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (May 08, 2012 4:36 am)
No, I was just expressing my frustration that you had only sat in one, but had confidence to state (not express as an opinion) that the previous generation was (capital letters yours) BAD.
 
I see a convenient lack of context in your rebuttals. Let's take a look at what I wrote:
 
Malibu still ranked LAST in a recent comparo of midsized family sedans (even though it continues to improve, which shows you how BAD it was in the past)
 
I pointed out that the previous models were BAD because the even nerwer (and better) model placed last in a comparison. I don't see that the conclusion that a previous model was BAD is such an unreasonable conclusion, given those facts.
 
Also, you are conflating the fact that I sat in one at an auto show with the BAD comment. The auto show comment was in response to your statement (again wrong) that I had probably never sat in one. The two statements BAD and I sat in one were not related together in my comments, although you are trying to put the two different context comments together.
 
Really, why not let's just state opinions and appreciate that we all differ? Distortions really don't get us anywhere.

#24415 of 32000 Re: Open minds... [tlong] by circlew

May 08, 2012 (1:14 pm)

Replying to: tlong (May 08, 2012 12:50 pm)
I can appreciate all points of view. Might not agree but gotta stay open.
 
When it comes to incentives, I agree timing is everything. Particularly on Malibu currently as the new model is introduced. 2012's will be a great "value" and the cars remains one of the best GM has made starting in 2008. Not perfect but now it's real close to the competition. GM needs to go the extra step to beat them.
 
Then, incentives don't have to be so huge to move inventory.....the car will move by sheer desire. Just my opinion!
 
Regards,
OW

#24416 of 32000 Re: GM Falls after EPS Beat; Europe is Weak and Market Share Drops [xrunner2] by imidazol97

May 08, 2012 (1:44 pm)

Replying to: xrunner2 (May 08, 2012 9:20 am)
>A calamity is awaiting and those in power in DC just diddle.
 
We're going to see some backpeddling from the admin on pretending to have interest in real cuts, such as proposed by the SuperCommittee, by the Republican who has made clear proposals for relative minor changees now, and the other committee whose results BO just ignored. The re-election is going to require some pretending. Whether the voters fall for that or not is unclear to me: they fell for Hope and Change and for Forward with its socialist roots. In all of this we're going to hear from all those who are upset about trivial amounts of money to help the auto industry of the US survive. So once again we're going to hear all about how Gm should have been allowed to fail, ad nauseum, and how foreign brands were wonderful. Now whether UAW should be allowed to keep part ownership ahead of bond owners is up for change in my book.

#24417 of 32000 Re: GM Falls after EPS Beat; Europe is Weak and Market Share Drops [imidazol97] by fintail

May 08, 2012 (1:52 pm)

Replying to: imidazol97 (May 08, 2012 1:44 pm)
Seems to me those who whine most about socialism (or what they see as socialism, as most can't actually define it) usually also whine about aiding domestic industry (but not giving undeserved gifts to the top few, of course - gifts which could never be cut, as some will call it "class warfare").

#24418 of 32000 Re: Open minds... [tlong] by uplanderguy

May 08, 2012 (3:24 pm)

Replying to: tlong (May 08, 2012 12:50 pm)
A recent mag puts the "Eco" model at the back of the list...their opinion...and you state flatly that the previous model was "BAD". All I'm saying is, I try to state opinions as opinions and facts as facts (identified as such). Pretty basic. But one has to admit, it is laughable for you to make a flat statement like that when you have done nothing more than sit in one. It would be as ridiculous if I labelled the Camry of a few years ago as "BAD" if I had only sat in one (at least I have driven a recent Camry, however, and for a week). I will say the recent Camry I had driven for a week was indeed bad IMO as it made control-arm bushing noises up front and the "Traction Control" light stayed on--at 15K miles.

#24419 of 32000 Re: Open minds... [uplanderguy] by busiris

May 08, 2012 (3:41 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (May 08, 2012 3:24 pm)
As I have driven literally hundreds of rental cars over the last 35 years, I would never come to any conclusion over the rental of a single vehicle.
 
Some vehicles in rental fleets are already beaters at 15,000 miles. I know, because I've experienced it first hand. I've even returned cars and swapped them for the very same model and seen a night and day difference. Contrary to popular belief, many rental users don't much give a damn about how they treat a rental unit.
 
A rental experience can give you an accurate ergonomic experience, but I would never base my selection of a vehicle based upon how the actual rental drove, rattled, etc., nor would I ever purchase a rental. I've seen far too much abuse given to rentals for me personally to take a chance on one.
 
Ask any rental shop mechanic how responsible some renters can be.
 
As I have said before, 1 or 2 points on a graph don't make a trend. A single bad experience in a rental model hardly translates into a quality judgment call...

#24420 of 32000 Re: Open minds... [busiris] by uplanderguy

May 08, 2012 (3:51 pm)

Replying to: busiris (May 08, 2012 3:41 pm)
As I have driven literally hundreds of rental cars over the last 35 years, I would never come to any conclusion over the rental of a single vehicle.
 
I think that is more solid evidence than taking a magazine article and making the flat statement that the car is BAD. Driving it is more 'seat time' than sitting in one at the auto show for *** sake. Guess what..the magazine drove one car too.
 
And again...he says nothing about the accolades of the previous car, but comes to a conclusion on it based on a test of the Eco-only version of the new car.
 
And also, the week after the Camry rental, I had a Malibu with 11K more miles. It was completely quiet...and hey, no lights on the instrument panel popping up either.

#24421 of 32000 Re: GM Falls after EPS Beat; Europe is Weak and Market Share Drops [imidazol97] by busiris

May 08, 2012 (3:55 pm)

Replying to: imidazol97 (May 08, 2012 1:44 pm)
You see a difference between the 2 parties that I don't.
 
IMO, neither party is much interested in balancing the budget, but instead it's popular fodder being used to beat the other side. It makes for really good talking points, but neither side is willing to take the necessary steps that will be required to reduce the deficit, which must be a combination of spending cuts AND tax hikes.
 
We can neither tax ourselves out of a deficit, nor can we resolve the defict by simply cutting spending. We need specifically targeted spending cuts AND tax hikes.
 
Both options are political suicide for any politician actively attempting to implement any sort of balanced plan. When you are more concerned with your political career than doing what you were elected to do (make the tough decisions) you will never take any significant action to make any noticeable change. Only when/if politicians start getting the boot out of office for inaction will be begin to see any real change take place.
 
From where I sit, I don't see anything but tons of rhetoric being dished out...
 
Perhaps that's why Congress is held in such low esteem these days... As it should be...
 
Real leaders lead...
 
Fact is, the general public doesn't appear ready or willing at this point to accept the required pain to fix the problem, so it's going to be fixed by significantly higher inflation down the road. When, I can't say...

#24422 of 32000 Re: Open minds... [uplanderguy] by busiris

May 08, 2012 (4:07 pm)

Replying to: uplanderguy (May 08, 2012 3:51 pm)
You are getting as opinionated as those you like to call " opinionated".
 
Any experience from a random rental is "contaminated", because you have absolutely no idea how the car has been treated up to that point.
 
For what it's worth, I wouldn't make any decision on buying a car from all the magazine articles combined. The real difference between the 2, however, is that the manufacturer has a chance to inspect the car before issuing it to a reviewer. Not so with any rental.
 
Indeed, that's why CR buys one off a lot .vs. taking a prepared car from a manufacturer. Whether or not that process actually works is up for some debate, but in theory it would seem to be the most accurate way of getting an honest sample for evaluation.
 
Personally, I like the reviews in which cars are tested by several drivers and then each driver states his/her opinion on what they like, and what they don't.
 
Example:
 
Ergonomic needs for a 5'2" driver are much different than those for one 6'2". If both drivers feel comfortable in the car, it's a good sign that most drivers would, tpo.

Messages Page 2443 of 3201

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