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#24024 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [uplanderguy]
Apr 24, 2012 (9:01 am)
GM always gets beat up for 'badge engineering', but here's a classic example from Ford. At least a Seville did not share a single piece of sheetmetal or interior pieces from anything else.
While I think the Seville is a perfect example of how good GM was at differentiating their products, 1975 was sort of a turning point when it came to badge-engineering.
Up to that point, the only GM products I'd consider to be badge-engineered were the '71 Ventura and '73 Omega and Apollo offshoots of the Nova. GM didn't do a whole lot to differentiate them, just change the easy stuff like grilles, taillights, trim, etc...maybe a hood here and there, since Pontiacs had a beak that carried into the hood. Dashboards were all pretty much the same.
But in 1975, wasn't that when the Astre came out, as a clone of the Vega? And that year the Chevy Monza, Buick Skyhawk, and Olds Starfire were release, all pretty much clones. And Pontiac would get their Sunbird for '76.
GM still did a great job at differentiating their intermediate and full-sized cars, though, although as the cars got downsized, they would become more similar.
I think the main reason GM got slammed was because they had to offer the same car across 3 or 4 divisions (or five, in the case of the J-body), and there was only so much they *could* differentiate. Meanwhile, Ford and Chrysler only had to sell the same basic car across 2 or 3 divisions. And here, there was much less differentiation going on, as they all used corporate drivetrains, and usually it was just the easy-swap stuff that was different. A Dodge Aspen had the same dash as a Plymouth Volare. A Chrysler LeBaron had the same dash as a Dodge Diplomat, and it was heavily based on the Volare/Aspen dash. The dashboard that's in my $12000+ New Yorker 5th Ave is the same that's in a $7000 St. Regis or Newport taxi...or the even cheaper Gran Fury that came back for 1980-81. That's something you wouldn't have seen at GM. No Cadillac, or even LeSabre/Electra, would have the same dash as a Chevy.
#24025 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [ateixeira]
Apr 24, 2012 (9:15 am)
Today there are Lincoln models that are badge-engineered from the Ford equivalent. With the exception of the Escalade and GMC and Chevy counterparts, at least no GM cars look virtually exactly like their "brothers". The same can't be said at Ford/Lincoln now.
#24026 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [uplanderguy]
Apr 24, 2012 (10:14 am)
I don't know... The Lambdas are examples of badge engineering still IMO. Other than the looks, they all share the same engine, platform, seating capacity, interior volume and each can overlap one another in price.
Then there is the dealers. Most of the GMC dealers are lumped in with Buick so having both the Enclave and the Acadia on the same lot...
And regarding looks, the new Acadia is supposedly using almost all of the exterior parts from the now defunct Saturn outlook so I don't know if you can get closer to rebadging than that!
Equinox and Terrain to me, same thing. Same engines, same capacity, seating, overlapping price. it's all just a matter of whether you want a decent looking ute or IMO, a butt ugly box.
#24027 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [anythngbutgm]
Apr 24, 2012 (10:25 am)
"Badge engineering" to me means the difference is...the badge. The Acadia does look like the old Saturn, which is gone now. A couple or so Ford and Lincoln products still fit that definition IMHO, as does the Escalade/Suburban/et al group. There is no Caddy automobile being sold now that is a rebadged Chevy.
#24028 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [lemko]
Apr 24, 2012 (10:43 am)
I remember when I was a kid, a relative had a Versailles, silver and dark blue with (I think) a dark blue button tufted leather interior - I thought that car was amazingly posh, it was a treat to ride in it. Little did I know...
Speaking of Granada, Ford of Europe started using that name first, with better results. Here's a ~1975 Ford Europe Granada:
Also available in fastback form:
By 1978, it became very modern, by then Europe was the trend setter in design:
The coupe became more of a two door sedan:
#24029 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [uplanderguy]
Apr 24, 2012 (10:44 am)
There is no Caddy automobile being sold now that is a rebadged Chevy.
But there is an SUV. The Escalade is just a fancy Chevy SUV with a Cadillac name to make more profit for GM.
#24030 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [uplanderguy]
Apr 24, 2012 (10:50 am)
I always considered badge engineering to be where they'd just swap out the real easy stuff, like taillights, grille inserts, etc. But most of the sheetmetal was interchangeable, and the dashboards were usually very similar, if not identical.
Ford and Mopar were usually the worst at it. I remember back in college, one of my friends had an '86 Escort, and the grille got broken out of it. I found an '87 Lynx in the junkyard, and its grille, while styled differently, was a direct fit. In fact, they didn't even bolt or screw in, they simply snapped in!
I would say that the Lincoln Mark Z or whatever they call it now is just a badge-engineered Fusion/Milan. Well, just Fusion now. It has a much nicer interior, and the exterior is revised, quite nicely actually (although I don't like the rear). But, like a late 1970's Versailles, there's no denying the fact that the Z is based on a much lesser car.
Ford does a better job with MKS versus the Taurus, IMO. It's not blatantly obvious, to me at least, that they're the same basic car.
I always thought Cadillac did a pretty good job traditionally, in that it usually only shared a platform with Buick and Olds but, with the exception of the Cimarron, never Chevy or Pontiac. And it was usually the upscale Buicks and Oldsmobiles at that, like the Electra/Ninety-Eight, or Toronado/Riviera.
About the worst that it got was when the LeSabre/88 went FWD for '86 and then the Bonneville for '87. But Cadillac quickly reacted, making the DeVille larger for 1989. I think the Coupe DeVille was 6" longer, on an unchanged 110.8" wb, but I think the sedan also got a 3" bump in wheelbase, so it grew 9" overall.
#24031 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [andre1969]
Apr 24, 2012 (11:01 am)
There is a Lincoln car and SUV that are 'badge-engineered' now. Don't even know what they call it, but I believe Lincoln has an "Edge" and a "Fusion" now. Nothing to that extent over at Caddy.
#24032 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [uplanderguy]
Apr 24, 2012 (11:13 am)
Yeah, the MKZ is a rebadged Fusion. MKX is the Edge. MKS is the heavily revised Taurus, although I think the MKS came first. I think the MKT is a heavily revised Ford Flex, and IMO they did a pretty good job disguising that.
I really wish Lincoln would go back to real names. I had to look up every single one of those to make sure I had them right. I kinda remembered the Z because it makes me think of Zephyr.
Personally, I'm not too fond of the Cadillac SRX. While it doesn't look like it's just a quickie rebadge of an Equinox, I think it's still too downscale for what a Cadillac should be.
#24033 of 32000 Re: I'm sure this is a scientific study! [andre1969]
Apr 24, 2012 (11:19 am)
My teenage daughters love the SRX, but I always scoff about the price when they've said they wanted us to get one as a family vehicle.
The Lincoln MKS (who can keep those names straight?!) is a handsome car that looks nothing like a Taurus IMHO. The MKZ is as much a Fusion as a Cimarron was a Cavalier I think.