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Automotive News & Views GM News, New Models and Market Share
8548 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 10:49 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 29, 2008 9:54 am) I don't see that's needed. Could end up looking like Accord or Camry designs--odd. Actually, I don't mind the style of my Dad's '03 Regal. I think it's handsome, in its conservative sort of way. My biggest complaints about the car are the the cramped back seat, interior, exterior fit and finish, and the handling, in no particular order. Well, the cramped back seat you can't really do anything about, as it's just a fault of the W-body, and you can't really do anything about it without either a complete redesign, or lengthening the car in the back seat area. But, they've always been tight back there, right from the first 4-door GM10's back in 1990. A cramped back seat is really only a problem though if you're tall and regularly have back seat passengers. If you're more average in height, or rarely need to use the back seat, it's not such a big deal. With the interior and fit and finish, I think GM has come a long way with the LaCrosse, compared to the Century/Regal. The body panel gaps are much tighter, and the parts line up much better, both inside and out. They've also improved the quality and feel of the interior components. Now maybe some people would still prefer an Accord or Camry, but IMO, these two have fallen victim to cost cutting. Lots more hard plastic in there than there used to be. As for handling, I've never driven a LaCrosse, so I don't know how it handles. My Dad's Regal is nothing to write home about in handling...to me it feels about like my '76 LeMans. However, need to point out that the Regal is just a base LS model. It has 15x6 wheels, and the tires are 70-series, but can't remember if they're 205 or 215's. Meanwhile, my LeMans is wider 15x7 rims, 225/70-R15 tires, and somewhere along its life got the suspension beefed up a bit. So it probably handles better than it did when it rolled off the assembly line (rides rougher, too). With the Regal, you could get upgraded wheels and tires if the handling really bothered you. And I imagine that a base LaCrosse probably starts you off with 16" rims these days and a tire that's either a 65 or 60-series. I actually prefer the style of my Dad's '03 Regal to the current LaCrosse! I like the more distinctive full-width taillights, the larger window area, and the front-end, which seems to have less overhang. If you could take the '03 Regal and give it the LaCrosse interior and up-to-date fit and finish, I'd be happy with it.
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| It brings back memories of the big Buick tuna boats of the 1950s with the portholes in the fenders or hood. The biggest problem was their DynaFlow transmission. It was inferior to the Olds and Pontiac Hydramatic. My dad hated Buicks & loved Pontiacs so I hated Buicks and went for Pontiac. Though I have only owned one, my first car a 1947 Pontiac convertible. Chevy automatics were also horrible in the 1950s. I think they were called PowerGlide. Same 2 speed as the Buick DynaFLow. All was not rosy for GM in the 1950s. Most of the cars I owned back then, I would carry a two gallon can of Raylube in the trunk as they used about as much oil as they did gas. | |
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Replying to: andre1969 (Nov 29, 2008 10:24 am) Now of course I'm old enough that Buick would like to market to someone else but that's another story. They strike me as awfully close to what they want and likely need to be. They've been reliable over a long haul and have fixed up the interiors.
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Replying to: fezo (Nov 29, 2008 11:11 am) i had a Buick once - a 56 Special that was my toy. It was the eternal $600 car. I bought it for that in the early 70s and tracked the next three sales and they were all $600. Had a good time with it. My grandfather had a great old 49 Buick and dad later picked up a 55 taht we liked a lot. Dad bought a lot of cheap cars when I was a kid. That Buick was the best of the lot. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 28, 2008 8:16 pm)
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"Come on now. All automakers have been hit by the recession but only the BIg 3, particularly GM are begging for help. " You got it wrong fezo. I agree to the notion that blaming America's bad economy on the D3 isn't totally right. But at the same time the D3 can't blame their condition on the bad economy, they effed up and put themselves in their current state. Btw the Big 3 now are Toyota, GM and VW. "Also, I have NEVER seen such a bitter bunch of $H!%HEADS as I have in the last few weeks. I NEVER IN MY LIFE thought I would see an AMERICAN ROOT FOR ANOTHER AMERICAN to LOSE THEIR JOB, or at least get knocked down a peg." Cooterbfd, PLEASE!!!! UAW are basically bunch of incompetent evil lazy people who want big time pay from doing big time NOTHING. How is that fair for others who work hard? You tell me. I don't root for Americans losing jobs, I root for IMPROVEMENT, which also means incompetents and devils like UAW deserve to lose their jobs. We're not bitter, we're realists, and you KNOW we're with the majority!!! We look at reality, so save your narrow minded patriotism-nationalism or whatever you wanna call it, it doesnt apply in real life. Like OW says : nothing personal, just business. |
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Despite my dislike for GM as a company I do think they come up with a few quality entries. Local GM dealers pulled this 3-day event where you can test different models (not official as shown by Saab's absence and no such event listed on web), and I did come to all of them. The result? I found a few products that I actually think competitive. They are: 1) Malibu Styling just as bland as most competitors, not worth mentioning. Handles not that much behind Honda Accord (definitely Chevy's first), but much better than Camry. Slow acceleration insignificant, its a family sedan afterall, but its quiet inside, a surprise for me. The interior quality however disappoints me a bit, too much plastic? No, its the plastic's quality that bothers me, I found them still too brittle and felt fragile. Fit-finish not the best, still too many misaligned panels, but I dare say it's at least on par with Camry's. Not bad, GM. 2) Traverse It's got the clean, simple muscular lines leading me to say the Traverse is the 2nd best looking Chevy after the upcoming Camaro (the clones are just ugly). Should GM become sensible and kill some of them, Traverse should be saved. Interior is decent, plastic panels felt more durable than those in the Malibu. Additional plus, the fit-finish is way better than Malibu's and any other Chevy trucks imo. Seats a bit mushy, but liveable. The 2nd and 3rd row are surprisingly small for the size, what the heck??? Apparently GM's old curse is still alive - bigger doesn't mean roomier... sucks. Another downside is 14mpg, thats the mileage I got (where's the EPA 17mpg?). One thing that baffles me is GM positions Traverse to replace the Trailblazer (???). With the Traverse being even larger than the Tahoe puts it into large suv category, how the heck can you replace a midsize truck with a full-size crossover?? That said I kinda like it and believe the Tahoe should be killed and replaced by the Traverse. 3) Corvette (duh...) It's pointless to point out just how fast it can accelerate. Very accurate steering only a fraction less communicative than BMW 3's. Minor but annoying vibration in the steering column spoil the fun. With torque available at almost any rpm, I could drop it down to around 1500rpm w/o pressing the clutch and the engine still didnt stall. I wonder how good the ZO6 engine is... The interior is the only part that failed to impress, still too many hard plastic panels barely acceptable even in a Cobalt, and the leather seats felt like 2nd rate vynil. I'd vote for a new, more comfortably shaped and supportive seats. The steering wheel spokes are oddly shaped and placed, I find it uncomfortable. Overall I can still accept the interior given the attractive price tag, and the performance convinced me to forgive the Ferrari rip-off styling (decent looking nonetheless). If I'm in the market for "value priced" performance 2 seaters this car will absolutely be on the list. 4) G8 v8 It's so much bigger than the pictures suggest. Definitely a full-size car. Stylewise my only issue is the overwrought cosmetic, like the pointless-useless hood vents. The face is a bit bimmer wannabe, but the overall effect is somewhat european, not bad. Inside is another story, simple. Front seats very firm (similar to german cars) and supportive, though a bit wide for my taste. Materials not so bad, but the plastic-like leather is hard to accept for this price (is it resin coated or something?). Easy to read gauges, but the Nintendo style graphic is downright ridiculous. All switches work well save for the signal stalk, which felt as fragile as plastic toys. Engine very, very responsive, only 2 problems found: 1) the tranny lunged from one gear to another, and 2) the engine rattled suddenly at times, according to the sales rep it's the cylinder shutter operating. Handles well for such a big car, almost felt midsize I dare say. Best part is the dealer's offer, $30k flat for fully loaded v8. 5) CTS Having experienced a rental previous-gen CTS I still think this car isn't that much a progress over the old one. Handles just as sharp, but the car still rolls and rides softly like the old. To be honest I barely felt any improvement in performance over the old one, and it's still too big imo. OTOH this will be a great long distance cruiser, especially with the new seats (much better than the old). Interior is better, both stylewise and materialwise. Better plastic all-around except for unconvincing metal-look dash part. The leather however hasn't improved, still felt on the value side. I'd rate the current CTS interior on par with Infiniti G, a fraction below BMW and trails everything else in class. I don't compare it with midsize competitors as it'll put CTS dead last (unless you add Chrysler 300c into the mix). I'd say the fit-finish is much improved were it not for the constantly rattling dash during my test drive. Most panels are neatly aligned, still trails competitors but not by much anymore. One gem is the stereo, darn impressive and it buries BMW's radio straight up. I still find it overpriced and with the infiniti G as competitor CTS has nothing in advantage except ride comfort (size about the same inside). All things said, good entry overall, best Cadi so far. The thing is: only the Corvette and CTS seem most likely to last in the long term. G8 will soon go bye-bye, Traverse's 14 mpg will scare buyers off faster than Osama in downtown NY, and Malibu still needs quality improvement. See the problem there? 5 credible cars to rely on (okay, add solstice and lacrosse if necessary), about 40-50 others so-so or below par, how's that gonna work? GM is so F-ed.... |
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"Make everything RWD again. If it's not RWD, then it's AWD. Nobody likes front wheel drive cars." I disagree, bud. FWD is much more economical. AWD is easier in snow, but adds weight and cost, plus worsen fuel econ. Besides us enthusiasts, most don't even care which end drive the wheels. No, from what I see a car must have at least one of the following in average Joe's mind: 1) Car is reliable and easy to maintain 2) Car has good quality and fit-finish 3) Brand has great customer service to satisfy buyers 4) Car has the value game, aka cheap 5) Car has performance others dont (like Nissan and Mazda's focus on performance) 6) Car at least very good looking (remember the 300c's success despite the poor service). Which points do the GM products have? From what I see, none. How GM should restructure it's line imo is: 1) There are only 3 divisions: Chevy, Cadillac, and Hummer. Drop all Pontiac Buick GMC and Saturn. Chevy the obvious economy and budget performance player, Cadillac the luxury division, and Hummer a small niche car division focusing sales overseas (like China or Russia, where Hummer is still considered an exotic). Sell Saab, keep Opel, Holden and Daewoo (each are very strong players in their own domestic markets) 2) Cherry pick the best of other divisions and merge them into the 3. Pontiac G8 becomes new Impala (the current for fleet sales at best), Solstice rebadged as Chevy, Sky dies, and another idea, use the Solstice platform to build a Cadillac roadster to fight the likes of Audi TTs and MB SLKs? Buick's best car, LaCrosse should be reskinned and badged as Cadillac, sell it as the value Cadi (ala lexus ES). 3) Kill all incompetent models. That means trash cars like Monte Carlo, Suburban and Equinox goes, as well as SRX, STS and XLR. Kill Hummer H3, Hummer fashionists expect Hummers to be big, tough and bad, the H3 doesnt deliver such image. "I beg to differ...grab the Solstice. Question is, whether to make it a Chevy or a Cadillac? Or just leave the Saturn Sky version, but that depends on whether you bother keeping Saturn in the first place. Personally, I think the Solstice might make a nice entry-level Caddy. Saturn's also got the Astra and the Vue that are unique to the brand. Take the Vue, make it the new Equinox (The Vue is the "redesigned" version, while the Equinox is the "old" version). Not sure what to do with the Astra...it hasn't been well received. Then they can drop Saturn too. " I beg to differ myself. Soltice will make a great Chevy, but a Cadillac, with all those cheap plastic panels and unrefined engine? Hell no. Saturn Astra a good car, but a hatchback is a terrible entry for US market. The Vue (and most Saturns) is a rebadged Opel and looks terrible. I say bye-bye both Vue and Equinox, and bring Captiva to the US market. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 29, 2008 6:15 am) It does not. Must be an error in the database you are looking at. Of course I think the Enclave is better looking than the Acadia since I bought one. Much more stylish. But that is always in the eyes of ....... |
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Replying to: whatugiv (Nov 29, 2008 11:39 am) |
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