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Automotive News & Views GM News, New Models and Market Share
8237 messages, Last post on Nov 22, 2009 at 8:40 AM
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Replying to: vanman1 (Nov 10, 2008 6:26 pm) I don't think it will be paid back. I would look at it as money spent to keep the Big 3 afloat. Unlike the Chrysler loans in the early 1980s. Chrysler had a plan and put it to work with the money we loaned them. It was paid back in 4 years with interest. All I hear from GM is we will be broke in the next quarter without the bailout. That does not sound like a loan. It is a gift the same we are giving to all the loser banks that are going belly up. So if Canada has an extra $25 billion USD to give the Big 3 they need to get out the check book. Is it worth it to save 400,000 Canadian jobs? That is about a years wages for those workers. Better hold onto it as you may need to pay long term retirement and unemployment.
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Ideally if the Detroit automakers were as heavily engineering dominated in the upper management ranks as German manufacturers are, I'd say they'd be in a lot better position than their present condition is. The ability of upper management to understand the fundamental aspects of product is important, ask why military hardware manufacturers or aircraft manufacturers in the US can still perform well in spite of everything.
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Replying to: aldw (Nov 10, 2008 8:11 pm) Not one more job goes outside of the U.S. from the day they get that money. Build a plant if they have to, but taxpayer money shouldn't go past our borders. That defeats the entire purpose of trying to stimulate the economy. We're supposed to stimulate OUR economy, and not China's or Mexico's. |
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Replying to: aldw (Nov 10, 2008 8:11 pm) Perhaps because the government is paying the bills for the military hardware and they buy from only US concerns? Notice also that Boeing is the last of US makers building commercial aircraft. Where is Douglas? McDonell?, General Dynamics? Hughes? All the commercial aircraft companies are combined into one, Boeing. And the only real competitor is a French based company. Supply and Demand and when there is only 2 suppliers and the demand is there you can charge what you need to. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 10, 2008 7:23 pm) |
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There are still some fishy things going on with this whole "GM in trouble" thing that don't make sense. First, if GM is in such bad shape, why is 95% of the ad space here at Edmunds sponsered by them? I mean, it's been nothing but GM ads on here for at least the past year. Same goes for the other car sites I visit. Surely, they still have a large advertising budget? Second, GM also just announced a new plant opening in Russia to the tune of 300 million dollars to pump out Cruzes and SUV's. Where is this money coming from? Also, (This one irks me the most) why is it that now that GM is supposedly "in trouble", the fear mongering is rampant calling for a "total collapse of the American economy" or (Lemko's apocolypse  come true) yet when the news of Chryslers eminent demise/sale/dismantling not even 1 month ago, the reactions were nothing more than ...meh, Chryslers done for, so what  Are they just not that vital to the American economy as much as the General is? How come their demise would have next to zero effect while the loss of GM in this country would turn this place into a third world disaster area? Same goes for Ford, whom over the years has had its own share of ups and downs yet, nobody is dreading it's demise and the effects it would have on the economy or the thousands of its employees? Are both of these companies expendable? Anyways, I'm not rooting for anybody to go out of business, and would like to see a bright future for the American automakers, even if it means doing the right thing and restructuring through BK but sometimes the priorities on this dilema can be downright baffling. |
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Nov 11, 2008 6:09 am) Like I stated before, now is not the time to introduce a new car, they need a restructure first.
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Nov 11, 2008 6:09 am) The entire industry was caught by surprise 3 months ago by the credit issue. This came on suddenly. Even Toyota is very surprised at the loss in business and they may even make no money this coming year in the US. So everyone was going forward with their business such as opening a plant in Russia where sales are going gonzo. One year ago inside GM everything was looking up. The UAW issue was evened out with the competitors, the health care issues were evening up, the quality was evened up and MPG was evened up. But with sales suddenly in the dumper all the cash flow to pay the bills stopped. No credit is really killing the entire market. Even the $700 Billion is doing little because the companies that got it are sitting on it. I think it was a mistake to give it to them because they did not do anything with it as the were supposed to. Our wise congress jsut gave them free money with what looks like no strings attached. So the bottom line is our entire industry, and our entire country was surprised by what happened. No one is buying anything. We are going into a world wide depression if it goes much further. As far as the marketing, Marketers make media buys months in advance. Money is already spent. Now Ford is in a better position because they "sold" all their assets (plants, buildings, etc.) a year ago for credit. They are now living on all that credit. GM still owns everything but in todays credit crunch they cannot get anything for them.
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Replying to: bvdj84 (Nov 11, 2008 7:14 am) G6, mid sized Pick ups Everything else is at least competitive with the top players. |
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 11, 2008 5:50 am) Yes the first $25 billion was offered just as you say as part of the Energy bill. It did have specific ties. Refurbishing old plants in the USA & alternative technologies to be built in the USA. It was not specific for the Big 3. HonToy could also apply for money from that pool if they met the criteria. The $50 billion is a bailout and I have not seen any mention of paying it back. Other than it may be considered part ownership. I would say the Big 3 bailout is not going to happen now that Obama has leaked details of his meeting with Bush. The Big 3 can lay everyone off over the holidays to try and keep enough cash flowing. If the UAW will not agree they can just file for chapter 11 and let the chips fall where they will. They have plenty of stock at the dealers to last several months. Maybe a lot longer. See what sells over Christmas and reopen the plants that are building what the people are buying. With the economy and the warnings I would think that most of the Big 3 employees would have saved enough to last 6 months without a paycheck. We are in for some hard times and 30% or 40% of nothing is still nothing. That is about where the Big 3 are sitting.
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