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Classic Cars, Coupe, Convertible, Truck, Sedan, Wagon
#477 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [hpmctorque]
Jan 30, 2011 (10:26 am)
There isn't really a complete counterpart for an old Mustang or a Tri-Chevy, especially in the Euro or luxury lineup. The closest to an old Mustang is a new Mustang - and just like the old one, there are so many of them made that values will always be reasonable.
I don't see many modern Euros becoming big collectibles - maybe special interest cars at best. AMG/M/S-RS etc cars will be curiosities, but not particularly valuable, if they survive at all. Then they'd just be affordable to purchase, but like a 25 year old MB now, maybe not affordable to maintain unless you are really devoted. Perhaps something like an AMG Black Series will be coveted.
#478 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [jwilliams2]
by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Jan 30, 2011 (11:12 am)
yes sure, hard to generalize, and no doubt some car or another will defy the odds---but in general, we CAN learn from past history of collectible cars.
Here's what I've learned, or think I've learned:
1. If a car is loved passionately when new by real car enthusiasts (not the "I think my XX is cute" or "this is the best little car I ever owned"---not *that* kind of love)....than this type of car has a chance of being loved and preserved in later time. I think the owner of a '70 Hemi Cuda most definitely knew he had something special. The fact that *so many* of these rare cars still exist suggest that this is true.
2. Cars with huge amounts of usable, demonstrable horsepower will generally survive, although not perhaps with great value. By *huge* I mean awesome, not 278HP in a minivan or even 325HP in a big sedan. I mean tire-burning, street-ripping HP in a car that can use it.
3. Most ultra-expensive exotics will survive---but again, maybe not at anything near their original MSRP.
4. Cars with legendary names or history tend to survive more. Again, I don't mean "endurance history" as in "the longest running 4D sedan in production", or "this car is celebrating its 100th anniversay"---what did that do for Oldsmobile after all? So *most* Ferraris, Porsches, etc---but not all. A Cayenne? I don't think so. A dime-a-dozen base level Boxster? I don't think so.
5. Cars of superior and highly specialized utility may survive, oddly enough, like some race cars, some 4X4 Jeeps, some 4X4 dually 3/4 ton pickups. Why? Because they can still do the work they were built for--they can "pay for themselves" in other words, by either racing, hauling or hunting,etc.
I realize these "rules" aren't hard and fast, and can get mushy, but this is my interpretation of the future. Like most Swamis, I could be wrong
Where does this leave 97% of all modern cars? In the junkyard, that's where.
#479 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [fintail]
Jan 30, 2011 (11:24 am)
"...unless you are really devoted."
Ah, you nailed it; "devoted" is the key word. As I see it, there just don't seem to be as many people devoted, to the extent that those of us who regularly post on Edmunds are, to classic and collector cars as there once were. Sure, a lot of people are interested in cars today, but not devoted to the hobby.
#480 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [Mr_Shiftright]
Jan 30, 2011 (4:58 pm)
Good post. I've got a 2002 v6 Toyota Tacoma 4-door, 4X4 that is pretty much cherry that I plan to hang onto.
With collectible cars it is always a crapshoot. In a few years we all may be driving street modified golf carts !!
#481 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [hpmctorque]
Jan 30, 2011 (7:05 pm)
You have to be devoted to keep a lot of old Euros on the road, so it comes with the territory in a way - probably why a 30 year old MB or BMW etc isn't rare - enough people take care of them to keep some around.
I don't know if there were ever a lot of people really into the hobby...it'll just be tougher for modern cars as their electronics decay, and the socio-economic devolution makes so less people can play with such toys.
#482 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [Mr_Shiftright]
Jan 30, 2011 (8:36 pm)
Your lesson #1 really does work for musclecars in general and maybe even BJ auctions too. This has come up before and I suppose it may always evoke anecdotal stories. My own experience was that real musclecars were always prized--right through the gas crunch malaise and all. But for every example I can recall about high-priced well-kept musclecars in the 70s it usually draws an opposite recollection from another. But there are other supporting resources...
A quick google of the Chicago Trib classified gave this result for May 20, 1979: "1970 HEMI CUDA $8500. 1970 HEMI ROADRUNNER $5500. Both mint Southern Cars." Someone with a collection of late 70s Hot Rod may find similar asking prices in the classified section.
In todays money $5k to $8k is nothing for a Hemi musclecar, but in 1979 that was not just "old 1970 used car" money either! How much did a new 1979 Olds Cutlass sell for back then? About the same? I never understood why some people claim that the gas crunch 70s was some sort of dumping ground for musclecars. Personal experiences and anecdotes aside, there are enough surviving newspaper and magazine ads to refute the "dumping ground" theory.
What makes rule #1 ring so true is car fanatics knew that a 1970 Hemi Cuda was something special and that allure has never changed. Sure nobody predicted that musclecars would ever approach blue chip auction status such as classic $200k Duesenbergs in 1979, but real car guys loved them anyway.
Wasn't the musclecar era the very last gasp at the same kind of reckless freedom which also created Duesenbergs? Life was never the same after the early 70s, not the the cars, the people, or the future. What's the next big thing in store for BJ auctions after musclecars? The end of that wild and crazy auction era, I think!
#483 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [omarman]
Jan 30, 2011 (9:21 pm)
"What's the next big thing in store for BJ auctions after muscle cars?"
Great question! I'm interested in others' responses because I can't think of the sequel. Not that there were no interesting affordable cars built after the muscle car era, but the muscle cars had the huge advantage of being relatively simple and low cost to repair and maintain.
#484 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [hpmctorque]
by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Jan 31, 2011 (9:30 am)
Well try to think of some modern car where people would try to tear the doors off a dealership in order to just look at the car. Can't think of any? Well then, there is no sequel, because "muscle cars" created enormous public response in their day. Also you have to remember that muscle cars were "everyman's car", not the plaything of the wealthy.
I thought maybe that cars like the Mitsubishi EVO and Subaru STi would take over this roll, and we may yet see a minor collector market for these cars in another ten years. I mean, a well-sorted EVO or STi is a pretty ferocious performer. Problem is, they look like what they are---entry-level Japanese sedans.
#485 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [Mr_Shiftright]
Jan 31, 2011 (10:45 am)
Let's stay on your line of thought and expound a bit.
The reason that "collectible" cars are not really in existence today is because who can be enthusiastic at the products spit out by the D3 from 1972 - 2011??
They stopped making super cars in the U.S.A. around 1970...period. They make real Sleepers now.
Once that changes 180 degrees ( we are at the bottom now), perhaps collecting will begin again. Until then, not much to collect!
Perhaps when the new guys realize they need to push the envelop and put 4 160HP electric motors (battery recharged by a Honda 4-pot, of course) at each wheel in a nice Challenger or Mustang (Camaro just ain't there yet for that crave feeling IMHO), then we can get excited again. We want 100mpg and 600 HP.
Then, the economy will skyrocket as in the past golden age of cars.
#486 of 526 Re: When did things get too electronic? [Mr_Shiftright]
Jan 31, 2011 (10:51 am)
About the only car remotely close to an enthusiast "everyman's car" today is the Corvette. Still too high priced for that distinction but compared to the offerings well north in price but not so north in power/performance per dollar, it's all we have left!
This is the clue of why the D3 went broke. Who has passion for their ride these days? They lost it 40+ years ago.......