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Good Taxis - READ ONLY

67 messages,  Last post on Feb 11, 2010 at 10:20 AM

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#28 of 67 So Where Are The Buick Rendezvous? (Re: Minivans as Taxis . . . [writer]) by writer

Nov 05, 2007 (8:12 pm)

Replying to: writer (Oct 30, 2007 6:52 pm)
This is an examination of the decision I made, 3 - 4 months ago, back in August, when I decided to buy a standard version (short) 2003 Pontiac Montana instead of an GMC Astro or a Buick Rendezvous.
 
I had set aside about $9000 Cdn. to buy a vehicle I could use to move my personal furniture for the next couple of years. In the end, I was pressed for time and I was NOT able to complete my research satisfactorily, so I took a gamble and hoped that my past experience would make up for the incomplete research and lead me to the right decision. I spent most of the money based on the resulting choice. After the purchase, I continued the research and fortunately, I concluded that I made the right choice.
 
How it Relates To Taxis:
 
Put simply, back in 2003, as new vehicles, depending on options and discounts, a Buick Rendezvous could be bought for around the same price as a short version Pontiac Montana. According to Edmonston, the depreciation rates appear to be pretty close. So one should be able to buy either one about the same price as a used vehicle.
 
For a taxi, the primary difference is that the Buick would have swing open rear doors and the Pontiac would have sliding doors. As I have stated above, in my opinion, except for taxis for the handicapped, it would be better for a taxi to have swing open rear doors. Even if my opinion about doors is not the most common, at the very least, if they were available on the used market at the same price as Montanas, there should be a few Buicks running around as taxis right now. But this has not happened. I have not even seen one Buick Rendezvous taxi. Why not?
 
About the "Lemon-Aid" Books v. The Real World:
 
Phil Edmonston writes very well researched books. Mostly, he gets his facts right. However, that does not mean that the facts back up his opinions. His recommendations can be quite good, but it depends on who you are.
 
If you are not interested in vehicles and do not want to do much research, then his overly-suspicious and negative opinions and advice are probably what you need. If you are willing and have time to do further research, you can use his opinions and research to find bargains that people who do not go further than his books, will miss. Let me emphasize that I LIKE his books, and I recommend them to people who need to learn about buying a used car. But I am well aware that the books are not perfect.
 
Specific Problems:
 
He lumps models together. For example, when you look at his pricing, he does not separate long vs. short wheelbase Pontiac Montanas. In the real world, the long wheelbase versions usually cost more. I generally found that the dealers asked about $1000 more for a long version, though I think that I could get the final price difference down to around $500. But Edmonston makes such generalizations often. Does he really think he can get a good condition 2-door 2003 Pontiac Sunfire for the same price as a 4-door? Think again. The 2-door versions are relatively rare in good condition and has some popularity in the young "tuner" set. The 4-door is not so highly regarded. Also, he does not even try to factor in milage (except to mention that 20,000 km is about average for a year), and gives little guidance regarding the value of options and the condition of the vehicle (exactly what is a slightly dented fender worth to you?).
 
He does the same for companies, and, I think, people (since companies are exactly that -- people). It does not appear that he is critical about the complaints he quotes. In other words, he seems to assume that if someone writes in with a complaint, then the complaint is legitimate and the manufacturer or dealer is wrong.
 
About the Rendezvous' Reputation
 
I do not have any reason to believe that the Rendezvous has any worse reputation than the Montana. In fact, it seems to generally be a better reputation. There were early problems with the Rendezvous, which have been typical for GM products, but if you read Edmunds Forums, I think you will agree that problems do not seem to be that common, nor as severe after around 2003 (when GM's DexCool problem was finally corrected). The same can be said for the Montana, but the Rendezvous was not around back as far as 1996 when the "platform" was in its' earliest years, so there are proportionally fewer people who bought Buicks who have complaints.
 
I do not know what the exact sales figures where, but my impression is that fewer Rendezvous' sold than Montanas in any given year. This was largely due to the "bold" styling. So in the end, Rendezvous' were bought by people who wanted that specific vehicle, and except for the very earliest production runs, it tended to satisfy those who bought them. So on the used market, what I found was that an equivalent Buick would have cost me about $2000 more. And even then, there were few that were really equivalent to my "low end" Montana, so more likely I would have spent over $3000 more to buy a Buick. This is hard to gauge because I did not sit down and negotiate an actual purchase. I am only going by what was offered.
 
Conclusions:
 
It appears to me that contrary to the numbers I found in Edmonston's book, the real depreciation of the 2003 Rendezvous is not as severe as the 2003 Montana. On top of that, there are fewer really "low end" Rendezvous available.
 
I was able to buy a short 2003 Montana in quite good condition with under 130,000 km. on it (and 1 year power train warranty) for a little over $7,000, including all dealer markups and taxes. On the one hand, there were certainly good condition Rendezvous' available to buy, but as noted above, from what I saw available, I would probably have paid around $11,000 at the low end.
 
This is what a theoretical taxi company would also find. The Buick Rendezvous *could* be bought, but the used Montanas and Ventures (and Dodge Caravans and Grand Caravans) are significantly cheaper, and unless they run out of these, they will not buy Rendezvous' for use as taxis.

#29 of 67 Good Taxi's by pmc4

Nov 09, 2007 (4:58 pm)

The BMW 3-Series and Mercedes Benz C-Class sedans are good taxi's--in Europe and Asia. They're equipped with horns, fuel gauges, transmissions and on occasion, optional tachonometers on vehicles so equipped.
In America, however, these vehicles are considered premium luxury/sport sedans (?).
 
Any explination for this bizarre buyer phonomena, BMW/Benz owners?

#30 of 67 Re: Good Taxi's [pmc4] by Stever@Edmunds HOST

Nov 09, 2007 (6:37 pm)

Replying to: pmc4 (Nov 09, 2007 4:58 pm)
Same reason Buicks are highly sought after in China? (link)
 
Another take on Buicks in China:
 
"The carmaker Buick, for instance, which suffers from a stodgy image in the United States, has done well in China by creating an aura of status and solidity that projects financial ambition. Sports cars, by contrast, are a hard sell because they are too flashy and project an image of nonconformity."
 
International Herald Tribune

#31 of 67 Re: Good Taxi's [pmc4] by andys120

Nov 10, 2007 (2:07 pm)

Replying to: pmc4 (Nov 09, 2007 4:58 pm)
BMW 3-Series and Mercedes Benz C-Class sedans are good taxi's--in Europe and Asia. They're equipped with horns, fuel gauges, transmissions and on occasion, optional tachonometers on vehicles so equipped.
In America, however, these vehicles are considered premium luxury/sport sedans (?).
  
Any explination for this bizarre buyer phonomena, BMW/Benz owners.
 
Well it's certainly nice to have horns and fuel gauges in your cab and having a transmission beats pedaling the taxi around Flinstone-style>
 

 
My "explination "(sic) would be as follows:
 
1) European customers would never accept the cramped, uncomfortable cars that pass as taxis in NA. I suspect the drivers would go out on strike if forced to spend eight hours in a Crown Vic.
 
2) Mercedes and BMWs in taxi fleets are almost always 4 cyl diesel or stripped down models that would be unsaleable in the USA even though they have transmissions.
 
3)"Prestige" is mostly in the buyer/owner's mind, the product of marketing hype and social cachet.
 
4)Mercedes and BMW cars sell well here because they are perceived as well-engineered and long-lasting, exactly the sttributes that an indidual or fleet owner would seek.

#32 of 67 Re: Good Taxi's [andys120] by andre1969

Nov 11, 2007 (9:54 am)

Replying to: andys120 (Nov 10, 2007 2:07 pm)
1) European customers would never accept the cramped, uncomfortable cars that pass as taxis in NA. I suspect the drivers would go out on strike if forced to spend eight hours in a Crown Vic.
 
I always thought it was a bit ironic that, of the Big Three full-sized models that downsized in the late 70's, the Crown Vic was the one that was usually worst-suited for police/taxi duty, yet it was the one that held on the longest.
 
And in some ways, the Crown Vic seems to have gotten WORSE with age! A buddy of mine has an '04 Crown Vic LX (uplevel models) and I swear it's not as nice or comfy inside as his old '95 Grand Marquis GS (base model). It also seems to me that the older, boxier 1979-91 style was roomier inside. More comfy, better seat padding, easier to get in and out of, etc.
 
The Crown Vic was the smallest of the Big Three downsized cars, though, so that might be one reason. It started off on a 114.3" wheelbase (I think it's increased a bit to 114.7 now). In contrast, GM's B-bodies were on a 116" wb, and Chrysler's short-lived 1979-81 models were on a 118.5" wb. It just seems to me that things like the wheel wells, driveshaft/tranny hump, and dashboard intrude more into the passenger area on the Crown Vic than they do in the other cars. And these are factors that won't affect published headroom/shoulder room/legroom dimensions, but still make the car less comfortable.

#33 of 67 No Real Taxi People? by writer

Nov 12, 2007 (11:14 pm)

I just checked back the date of I started this topic. I wondered back then if we would have some real taxi people (owners, drivers, mechanics) replying on this topic. I am a bit surprised. I would have thought that some ex-cabbies would be around, but I guess not. Either that or they just do not feel like posting anything on this topic.

#34 of 67 New York City Green Yellow Cabs by writer

Dec 13, 2007 (9:31 pm)

While I was driving this morning, I heard a news report about Mayor Bloomberg saying that New York City's cabs were going to be hybrids. I did not hear the whole report, but the thought stuck in my head and I just got around to a Google search and I guess that what I heard was his address to the "UNITED NATIONS FRAMEWORK CONVENTION FOR CLIMATE CHANGE CONFERENCE" today.
 
Bloomberg address press release
 
Among his comments in his address, he said:
 
"Just this week, we took steps to ensure that by the year 2012, our city's 13,000 taxicabs will be hybrid or hybrid-equivalents. That alone will cut New York City's carbon emissions by nearly half a percentage point, and save each cabdriver almost $5,000 a year in fuel costs."
 
I did not know that this was going on. Something to think about.

#35 of 67 New York City Green Yellow Cabs by hpmctorque

Dec 13, 2007 (9:58 pm)

It seems to me that the '08 Scion xB would be a nice, practical taxi. It might be even better with a Prius drivetrain, or a diesel engine. The relative unaerodynamic shape would be relatively insignificant for a taxi, where space efficiency is a higher priority.
 
Domestic alternatives would include the Ford Escape hybrid, Saturn Vue hybrid or Malibu hybrid.

#36 of 67 Re: New York City Green Yellow Cabs [hpmctorque] by andys120

Dec 23, 2007 (10:44 am)

Replying to: hpmctorque (Dec 13, 2007 9:58 pm)
I believe there are already a small number of Escape Hybrids doing Taxi duty in the Big Apple. They strike me as too small and the cost for replacing batteries must be horrendous.

#37 of 67 DeSoto... by lemko

Dec 23, 2007 (4:19 pm)

...had a very good taxi in the 1942-48 models. Packard also made taxis of their six-cylinder models.

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