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#18 of 67 2003 numbers (Re: Minivans as Taxis . . . [writer])
Nov 02, 2007 (7:43 pm)
In #12 paragraph 3 I wrote "This compares a 2004 Malibu . . .", but in the data I identify the car as "2003 Malibu Std". The data is for the 2003 Malibu. I have a lot of data lying around for vehicles around 2003 because I started looking for a vehicle earlier this year (I started looking from about April 2007). I felt that I did not want anything newer than 2004 because most of the depreciation occurs in the first 4 years, so 2003 was the newest that I expected to buy. By coincidence, I think that 2003 is probably about the average age of the vehicles I see in taxi service lately too. However, when I was looking for the Malibu, I found the 2004 data first and did not feel that it was the exact age was that important, so I copied it down. After I wrote the message, I decided that I wanted the 2003 Malibu data instead, because it would make a better comparison, so I re-did my search and came up with the proper 2003 numbers. However, I missed that reference, so that is why there is an error.
I will be posting a few more numbers regarding 2003 vehicles later.
#19 of 67 Re: Minivans as Taxis . . . [andys120]
Nov 02, 2007 (7:55 pm)
I think you can get steps (in the form of running boards) for most of the taller vehicles. I do not like steps for a few reasons. First, they can be damaged while parking, they are probably detrimental to aerodynamics (which costs you extra fuel), and lastly, depending on the installation, they can create new rust points.
I have seen some minivans outfitted with a ramp for wheelchair usage. I did not pay attention to where the ramp is stored. This looked like a good, fairly inexpensive alternative to the power lifts.
Maybe you could suggest that some of Edmunds' writers put together an article on step-up heights for various vehicles?
By the way, I should clarify that my name "writer" was sort of accidental. I am a writer, but not for Edmunds. I picked the name because I was new to forums back when I signed up and it did not occur to me that I would not be able to change it later. It was a bad choice. Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do about it now.
#20 of 67 Re: Minivans as Taxis (Re: Mazda 5 [andys120]) [writer] [andre1969]
Nov 02, 2007 (10:01 pm)
2007 was the last model year that Chrysler and GM made the standard size minivans, so if you run out tonight you can probably still buy a "new" one at a low price. For this 2008 model year the Chrysler and GM minivans will be "Grand Caravan" size, which is, as you say, a bit over 200" overall length and on a wheelbase of around 120".
Ironically, Kia has just started selling a short length wheelbase version of the Sedonna, which means that if you want that size in particular, they have the only product on the market. Since they now have an excellent reputation, if there is any real demand for the size, they could make huge sales numbers on it. However, the Chev Equinox and Pontiac Torrent are so close to that size that GM expects them to take up the sales lost by the minivans. I think the only problem with this idea is that they do not offer a 3rd row seating option in the Equinox/Torrent.
#21 of 67 With the taxis changing...
Nov 03, 2007 (10:05 am)
...from cars to minivans, the drivers should change too! Back in the day they were gruff, tough-talking New Yorkers. Then they became immigrant drivers from the Middle East, India, and Russia. Now that they are using minivans, they can be suburban soccer moms who will need to moonlight as cabbies to pay for the ARMs that reset at a higher rate on their McMansions.
#22 of 67 Re: With the taxis changing... [lemko]
Nov 03, 2007 (10:40 am)
Uh oh. I can see it now - "If I have to stop this taxi somebody back there is going to be sorry.".....
#23 of 67 Depreciation (Re: Minivans as Taxis [writer])
Nov 03, 2007 (8:05 pm)
I wanted to speculate about where taxi companies are getting their vehicles lately. I think that in the "old days" most taxis were probably bought new in fleet purchases at big discounts. I do not think that happens as much these days. The variety of vehicles, and the general lack of new vehicles indicates that they are probably bought on the used market, probably mostly at bulk auctions, but maybe sometimes from dealers, or maybe even private sales. Part of the reason for this is because there can be really big drops in the cost of a vehicle in the first couple of years. That would favor buying certain vehicles that have depreciated rapidly. So I was wondering if there was a correlation between the cabs on the street and the rates of depreciation.
Anyway, the following data shows my estimated depreciation of minivans and compares them to what I am now tentatively calling "Utility Vehicles" (not bothering with the distinction if any between "Crossover" or "Sports"). The book I took the numbers from is a vague as to the sources, and dates where the numbers came from, so I have guessed that the numbers fairly represent a 4 year drop from 2003 to 2007. That is close enough for my purposes.
Vehicle / Lowest New Price / Average 2007 Value / Percent Per Year (linear) / Percent Per Year (log)
Dodge Caravan / $25,430 / $11,250 / 13.9 / 18.4
Dodge Grand Caravan / $29,295 / $13,000 / 13.9 / 18.4
Ford Windstar / $26,195 / $11,000 / 14.5 / 19.5
Chev Venture / $25,865 / $11,750 / 13.6 / 17.9
Pontiac Montana / $28,520 / $11,750 / 14.7 / 19.9
Honda Odyssey LX / $32,200 / $18,750 / 10.4 / 12.6
Kia Sedona LX / $24,995 / $11,000 / 14.0 / 18.6
Mazda MPV DX / $26,090 / $13,750 / 11.8 / 14.8
Toyota Sienna CE 4d / $29,060 / $16,750 / 10.6 / 12.9
Chev Astro CS / $27,600 / $12,500 / 13.7 / 18.0
Acura MDX / $49,000 / $29,000 / 10.2 / 12.3
Buick Rendezvous / $31,545 / $14,750 / 13.3 / 17.3
Honda CR-V / $27,300 / $17,250 / 9.2 / 10.8
Honda Element / $23,900 / $13,750 / 10.6 / 12.9
Honda Pilot / $41,000 / $24,250 / 10.2 / 12.3
Hyundai Santa Fe / $22,595 / $13,750 / 9.8 / 11.7
Kia Sorento / $29,795 / $15,500 / 12.0 / 15.1
Toyota Highlander FWD / $32,330 / $18,250 / 10.9 / 13.3
Toyota RAV4 4X4 / $24,485 / $14,500 / 10.2 / 12.3
All prices from Edmonston's 2007 "SUVs, Vans, and Trucks".
NOTE: Edmunston does not generally separate long v. short wheelbase versions.
The "linear" percentage drop is basically what it should cost annually for a lease whereas the "log" percentage drop is the estimate of the real depreciation per year.
I am still looking at the numbers, so I do not have any conclusions right now. Draw your own, if you can. . . .
#24 of 67 Re: Depreciation (Re: Minivans as Taxis [writer]) [writer]
Nov 04, 2007 (9:53 am)
My apologies. I was quite tired when I submitted the previous post. Actually, I usually am quite tired when I post anything. Anyway there are some corrections:
- I did not state that the prices were all Canadian dollar prices for 2003 model year vehicles.
- I meant to say that the linear depreciation is LIKE a lease payment calculation because it is a constant value depreciation. This is NOT how leases are calculated, it is just similar.
#25 of 67 Re: Depreciation (Re: Minivans as Taxis [writer]) [writer] [writer]
by steve_ HOST
Nov 04, 2007 (10:08 am)
That's a lot of work! If you want to keep at it - Edmunds will tell you what the depreciation will run for those vehicles out to five years (US numbers only though).
True Cost to Own
Best get a gallon of Tim Horton's coffee for your next session.
#26 of 67 Re: Minivans as Taxis (Re: Mazda 5 [andys120]) [writer] [andys120]
Nov 04, 2007 (7:25 pm)
Next trip I will look into an executive car service (Lincoln Town Car).
For several of my trips to and from the airport I used this fellow with a Lincoln Town Car. He charged me $25 each way and picked me up at the curb on return. At the time Cloud Nine was charging when you pay in advance $74 round trip and they loaded the van up with people both directions. I hated using them. My Town car guy lasted about a year and then his phone was disconnected. Never found a service I liked as well. Town Cars make great Taxi cabs. Vans are ok for a short 2 mile trip to the hotel.
#27 of 67 Re: Depreciation (Re: Minivans as Taxis [writer]) [writer] [writer] [steve_
Nov 05, 2007 (8:04 pm)
"That's a lot of work!"
Bad thought! Never even think about how much work you are doing when start something like this. Otherwise you end up not getting started.
Besides, as I said, I had a lot of the data lying around from previous research, which I will comment on in my next messages.
The "True Cost" calculator is, on the one hand really good, but on the other hand, it was overkill for what I needed for this particular thread. Good to know it is there.
Re the coffee: Never think about how much coffee you are drinking, . . . , well, ok, maybe when your hands start shaking.