Article Comments - 2009 Honda Fit First Drive / Full Test

556 messages, Last post on Feb 05, 2009 at 1:45 PM

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What is this discussion about? Honda Fit, Hatchback

First Drive: 2009 Honda Fit - Inside the Fit's cabin, it's apparent that quality levels are up, with improved plastics, more supportive seats and a tilt-and-telescoping steering wheel. Meanwhile, a new dashboard layout looks softer, reflecting a special effort by stylists to appeal to women. (more)

2009 Honda Fit Sport Full Test - Bottom Line: If only every sequel were so good. It's as if Honda used our long-term test blog about the 2007 Fit as a road map for the 2009 model's improvements. (more)

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#473 of 556 2009 Honda Fit First Drive by prufrock1 Oct 11, 2008 (1:57 pm)
OK, I'll focus more on the car than on my language. My wife and I both look forward to driving our '09 AT Sport. We bought it at MSRP, with the all-weather mats included. I stopped by the dealer today to get some touch-up paint, and I ran into my sales guy. He told me that he'd have the driver's side mat installed for free for me (it involves some cutting of the floor). We could not be happier with our purchase....
#474 of 556 Re: [mustangxr] by toronado455 Oct 12, 2008 (1:18 am)
Replying to: mustangxr (Oct 10, 2008 1:04 am) Pete, personally I would just get the automatic instead. It gets better mileage than the stick because it's geared taller. And just by driving it with a light foot it will upshift at the earliest possible opportunity, thus getting the best fuel economy without needing to lug the motor or run in an inappropriate gear for the speed. I guess I'm still not convinced that lugging the motor isn't bad for it. Replies to this message: mustangxr (Oct 12, 2008 2:28 am) carfreak_25 (Oct 12, 2008 9:15 am)
#475 of 556 Re: [toronado455] by mustangxr Oct 12, 2008 (2:28 am)
Replying to: toronado455 (Oct 12, 2008 1:18 am) El Toro, Well, after driving my 07 Fit like I mentioned for the last 14 months with absolutely no problems......I don't think it is a problem. Not that I begrudge you the auto, mind you, but if the engine and machinery does not buck, snort or shudder, then it must be OK. If you are tooling around at 30 to 40mph on a flat road in light to moderate traffic, then why not be in the highest gear (lowest RPM) the car will pull without complaining.?? As far as loading the engine for break-in, consider that with a new or rebuilt aircraft engine, the manufacturer instructs you to run NO LESS THAN 75% power for the entire first 50 hours of operation. They go on to state that this will keep the cylinder pressures high to seat in the rings. Getting back to the Honda, it is impossible to run 75% power around town, so all you can do is to load the engine artificially by driving in a lower gear. The Honda ignition control automatically pulls timing to preclude any engine damage from preignition or knocking/pinging, etc. How it works is that the cylinder pressure gets underneath the rings, or between the rings and the piston, and compresses the ring against the cylinder walls, augmenting the natural ring tension. Anyway, it is nigh impossible to run anything close to 75% power on a car unless you are on the track or going up huge hills like we have in B. C., Canada. The 1.5 liter L15A I-VTEC engine seems quite happy at 1500 RPM and 30mph in both of my Fits, which is what you get in fifth gear. Cheers, Pete Replies to this message: carfreak_25 (Oct 12, 2008 9:15 am)
#476 of 556 Re: [mustangxr] by carfreak_25 Oct 12, 2008 (9:15 am)
Replying to: mustangxr (Oct 12, 2008 2:28 am) Hey mustangxr, I thought I'd just clear up some misconceptions you have. First, the aircraft engines are build totally different from car engines. If you read the manual or ask the honda (or any) mechanic, during the break-in period you're supposed to run in a car at mixture of light and heavy loads as well as a mix of low and high speeds but that doesn't mean red-lining (or even coming close to) or lugging the engine. Second, the piston rings aren't the only things that need to be broken in, there are bearings and valves any many other things attached to the engine that turn and require a break in period. The reason I bring this up is because Lugging the engine is extremely bad for the bearings. This is because at low RPM's the oil pressure is at it's lowest. Since the bearings are simply a pressurized oil film, a large amount of downwards force on the piston (full throttle) and a correspondinly low pressure oil film causes the bearings to slap together causing metal on metal contact, wearing out and stressing the bearing surfaces. Also the piston rings will break in just fine at lower cylinder pressures. Another thing I would like to point out is that these engines are not rebuilt, they are new and they come installed in the car broken in from the factory so the break-in period is mostly for the rest of the moving parts of the car. The machinery will not buck, snort, or shudder while lugging the engine but this does not mean it is ok, you will notice that the engine gets louder, what you are hearing is the bearing surfaces smacking together. Keep in mind that low rpms are ok but lugging depends on how much throttle is given during this time of low rpm. 1500 rpm at full throttle shouldn't be enough to cause the engine to lug, 1100 at full throttle might and 800 rpm at full throlle definitely will cause lugging. Pinging and knocking is not caused by engine lugging (in fact it has nothing to do with it), it is caused by multiple flame fronts in the combustion chamber resulting from high combustion temperatures (caused by low octance fuel, too high compression, overheated engine, etc) or ignition timing that is overadvanced. Predetoniation is another problem alltogether caused by hot carbon deposits (not lugging). Just because you have been driving for 14 months problem free does not mean it is ok. Honda engines are known (and built) to last 500000 km ++. They can take alot of abuse because of superior tolorances and advanced materials technology. Lugging the engine will cause your engine to not reach this ripe old age, it is not something you will notice in such a short time. Greg
#477 of 556 OIL CHANGE by widetrack2000 Oct 12, 2008 (8:25 pm)
I remember someone telling me you should have the first oil change AND THE FIRST ONE ONLY done much sooner than the owners manual recommends on a brand new car somewhere in the 2500 range and then start following the regular maintence schedule. The last new car I owned had an engine block with four hoses so I'm a little in the dark with these 100% computer controlled engines. Any thoughts? Replies to this message: toronado455 (Oct 12, 2008 9:23 pm) byron2 (Oct 13, 2008 7:17 am) lubricator (Oct 13, 2008 8:52 am) toronado455 (Oct 13, 2008 12:51 pm) bobw3 (Oct 13, 2008 2:15 pm) and 3 more... shneor (Oct 15, 2008 2:46 pm) and 1 more... mustangxr (Oct 24, 2008 2:49 am)
#478 of 556 Re: OIL CHANGE [widetrack2000] by toronado455 Oct 12, 2008 (9:23 pm)
Replying to: widetrack2000 (Oct 12, 2008 8:25 pm) I asked my mechanic about this once and his advice was to have the first ever oil change on a new car at 1000 miles to get rid of any metal particles that might exist from engine break-in. Then start with regular intervals after that. That seems to make sense to me.
#479 of 556 Re: OIL CHANGE [widetrack2000] by byron2 Oct 13, 2008 (7:17 am)
Replying to: widetrack2000 (Oct 12, 2008 8:25 pm) Hi Widetrack2000: Changing the oil first at 600 miles to remove any leftover manufacturing debris used to be the rule (I first heard this in the '70s) but I believe that is no longer as applicable as it used to be. It's in Honda's best interest that your engine (and car) are as reliable as possible. Suffice it so say their products walk that talk, so I suggest you do what Honda recommends in this area. No disrespect to anyone but I don't think any individual knows as much about what to do in this instance as the $50M engineering organization that designed the engine - and many other very reliable engines as well. In the Fit manual they also indicate that the oil from the factory is formulated specifically for break in. Would not want to remove that too soon. Replies to this message: lubricator (Oct 13, 2008 8:52 am) toronado455 (Oct 13, 2008 12:51 pm) bobw3 (Oct 13, 2008 2:15 pm) toronado455 (Oct 14, 2008 12:41 am) and 1 more... daze (Jan 18, 2009 4:54 pm) shneor (Oct 15, 2008 2:46 pm) rlh2 (Feb 01, 2009 9:31 am)
#480 of 556 Please, no lugging and no early oil & filter changes by dweiser Oct 13, 2008 (8:41 am)
Hi, On this planet it's NEVER good to make an engine lug. This is especially true of a new (or re-built) engine. That's n-e-v-e-r allow it as in do NOT do it to your lovely engines! (My other vehicle is a Porsche). I too was taught to change the oil & filter on a new car early, like at 500 to 1,000 miles. This is now old and incorrect advice. Machining of new engines has improved greatly and so the metal filings, etc. that used to be found in a new engine's oil just aren't there now. PLUS, I have been told that Honda is one of the few auto-makers to use "break-in" oil to help protect a brand new engine. Change the oil before the manual says to and you're throwing out the break-in oil. While I would not bet the farm on the break-in oil info I was given I would bet it on the lugging issue. Replies to this message: toronado455 (Oct 15, 2008 11:17 am)
#481 of 556 Re: OIL CHANGE [byron2] by lubricator Oct 13, 2008 (8:52 am)
Replying to: byron2 (Oct 13, 2008 7:17 am) Honda recommended changing oil & filter after one year on my new Fit Sport A/T. Use dealer maintainance or lose guarantee. Replies to this message: toronado455 (Oct 13, 2008 12:51 pm) bobw3 (Oct 13, 2008 2:15 pm) toronado455 (Oct 14, 2008 12:41 am) bobw3 (Oct 14, 2008 3:56 am) daze (Jan 18, 2009 4:54 pm) shneor (Oct 15, 2008 2:46 pm) rlh2 (Feb 01, 2009 9:31 am)
#482 of 556 Re: OIL CHANGE [lubricator] by toronado455 Oct 13, 2008 (12:51 pm)
Replying to: lubricator (Oct 13, 2008 8:52 am) I was told once by a VW dealer that they put a special oil in at the factory that should be left in for an EXTRA LONG TIME - (I don't remember if that was 5000, 7500 or 10000 miles.) This was around 1992. So I have heard all different things. One would think that if the factory installs a special brake-in oil, and the engine brake-in period is COMPLETED at about 500 miles, then it shouldn't be any harm to change that oil at 1000 miles. But if there are no metal particles anymore, and the special oil is for some other purpose, then that changes everything. So I'm really confused now.