Last post on Dec 09, 2012 at 7:21 PM
You are in the Chevrolet Volt
What is this discussion about?
Chevrolet Volt, Automotive News, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, Truck, Sedan, SUV
#57 of 1015 Re: Hey, TPE [1stpik]
Jan 29, 2008 (5:54 am)
GM does make hybrids. Whether or not you want to consider them hybrids is up to you. GM refers to them as "mild hybrids". The name kind of says it all. I suspect that GM could have simply done what Nissan did with their Altima hybrid, which was to pay Toyota to use their technology. GM chose not to do this.
On the other hand GM's two-mode hybrid system does provide significant fuel savings. They're choosing to incorporate this into full sized vehicles first because that is their customer base and that is where the greatest fuel savings will be achieved.
The way you'd go about driving a Volt is to wait until 2010. If you still can't drive one then it will be due to a delay in the battery pack. You've already stated that this type of delay isn't the same thing as not fullfilling a promise. All GM's press releases have stated that this production date is contingent on the battery pack being ready. In 2006 when Toyota was announcing what the third generation Prius would be capable of I don't remember reading these types of disclaimers.
#58 of 1015 Re: Still the big if [pf_flyer]
Jan 29, 2008 (6:13 am)
I'm not sure why anyone would make a parallel between the Chevy Volt and a turbocharged Geo Metro. Unless they're stating that they're both ridiculous. Maybe so but Toyota, Ford, Chysler and some lesser knowns have also apparently jumped on the ridiculous bandwagon. At the same time Nissan and Mitsubishi are aggresively pursuing an EV with no range extending capability.
When you're testing these battery packs for endurance that will take time. GM's next milestone to reach is April of this year when they have stated they will have a fully functioning prototype.
#59 of 1015 Re: Yes .... [tpe]
Jan 29, 2008 (9:10 pm)
i think he makes a good point.
there are thousands of happy Prius owners driving the roads.
GM's hybrid is just talk and no walk
we're talking about a 4-5 year lead in the hybrid world by Toyota - that's pretty significant imo
May GM will deliver us a hybrid hummer?
#60 of 1015 Re: Yes .... [aspesisteve]
Jan 30, 2008 (5:51 am)
GM's hybrid is just talk and no walk
Which of GM's hybrids are you talking about? Saying that GM's "mild hybrid" doesn't match up to Toyota's "full hybrid" doesn't make much sense. It's comparable to stating a Ford Ranger can't tow as much as a Ford F-150. It wasn't designed to. Whether or not the minimal mileage benefit from this mild hybrid technology makes any sense is a subjective opinion. Even if it's only 2 more mpg that's better than nothing. So if the price to achieve this is cheap enough then the customers will choose this option.
Now GM's two-mode hybrid system is another matter. It provides significant fuel savings.
GM is the first to admit that they made tactical errors in discontinuing their EV program and letting Toyota take a big lead in hybrid technology. So anyone criticizing GM in this regard is simply echoing GM's own position. I believe they are aggressively trying to make up ground. It doesn't happen overnight.
#61 of 1015 Re: Yes .... [tpe]
Jan 31, 2008 (10:25 am)
"Which of GM's hybrids are you talking about?"
I guess the Volt would be a good start if you want to call it a hybrid.
Then there is the Chevy Maibu Hybrid.
And there was a truck hybrid they introduced last year which didn't provide much.
Just because GM admitted to their own blunder by pulling the plug on their Electric Car, doesn't make their black eye go away. Not until they bring something of substance to the market.
The two hybrid system sounds great? When can the public buy it?
I think GM is out promoting themselves as green when they really don't have anything hybrid worthy to offer yet. Are they hoping people will put off leaving for another manufacturer who have better options here and now?
#62 of 1015 Re: Yes .... [aspesisteve]
Jan 31, 2008 (11:33 am)
Toyota also pulled the plug on the RAV4 EV. Do they still have a black eye?
The Chevy Volt is not a hybrid, it's an EV. Hybrid implies a blend of multiple drive systems. The Chevy Volt will use only electric motors for it's propulsion. It simply carries along a generator for recharging.
My understanding was that the Yukon/Tahoe hybrids are available to the public in very limited quantities. Kind of like the Prius when it first came out. And someone looking for a full sized SUV hybrid does not have better options here and now.
#64 of 1015 Re: Yes .... [tpe]
Jan 31, 2008 (11:39 am)
does Toyota have a black eye?
in the world of delivering hybrids to the masses?
no, not at all. not in my opinion
toyota is the darling of the green movement.
maybe they got lucky? maybe they had better vision? maybe they are a better run company?
#65 of 1015 Re: Yes .... [aspesisteve]
Jan 31, 2008 (5:22 pm)
toyota is the darling of the green movement
I agree with you there. That is primarily a reflection of how perception/image trumps reality. That's why GM regrets not pursuing hybrids earlier. They didn't appreciate how valuable this "green image" is. It doesn't matter whether you are really green just so long as your perceived to be. In that sense the Prius became a Halo car. It didn't matter whether or not they made money on the vehicle or whether or not Toyota was improving the fuel efficiency of their fleet. People now identified Toyota with the Prius and that's all that mattered.
On the reality side, which often times goes unnoticed. Toyota was right there with the domestics in lobbying against the proposal to increase CAFE standards. They also joined in the lawsuit to try to fight California's mandate to limit CO2 emissions. Their fleet mpg is lower than it was in 1980 because like everyone else they continue to increase the size and power of their vehicles. It just doesn't matter because when people think of Toyota they think of the Prius, not the Land Cruiser, the Tundra or a 268 horsepower Camry.
#66 of 1015 Re: Yes .... [aspesisteve]
Feb 01, 2008 (8:02 am)
Apparently nobody told these cities that GM's hybrid technology is junk, they are all talk and no walk and they only sell promises. It seems that had these cities known this they would be buying their hybrid buses from Toyota.