- #483 of 544
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Re: There's the other point [larsb]
by dmathews3
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Jul 22, 2009 (1:42 pm)
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Replying to: larsb (Jul 22, 2009 1:14 pm)
I don't think we will ever see enough electric cars to change the off peak times to peak before we ever get that many cars we will have something else like hydrogen fuel cells.
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- #484 of 544
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Re: Semantics [buyamerican2]
by gfr1
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Jul 22, 2009 (7:52 pm)
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Replying to: buyamerican2 (Jul 22, 2009 10:06 am)
I disagree! Lomotives & very large trucks, in the sense of small vehicles, aren't efficient. No batteries for energy storage exists, so where's the comparison? Locomotives need lots of weight. That's not energy efficiency. The Prius' efficiency is largely due to the battery helping the ICE during acelleration and climbing grades. Therefore it can have a smaller, more efficient, engine and one that doesn't require low rpm torque due to the battery assist. Going down the other side of a hill, or long grade, the Prius regenerates the battery for further use whereas the Volt wastes that excess energy, once the propulsion battery is low and off-line. Then think about the cold country, such as Fargo, Duluth, etc. What is going to heat the cabin, defrost the front and rear windows, keep the catalytic warm, and such? Where's the 40 mile EV only range potential now? In such a scenario, maybe 5 miles, or 0, if the ICE provides the heat? And if that is the case, it appears that the operating ICE wouldn't even be able to use the excess power to charge the battery! There's a lot of detail that hasn't yet been disclosed, but it seems a little disconcerning to me. GR
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- #485 of 544
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Re: Should GM take note? [larsb]
by michael2003
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Jul 26, 2009 (3:55 am)
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Replying to: larsb (Jul 21, 2009 10:32 am)
Nice post, and thanks. It does a very good job of explaining what I understand is the current motive plan.
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- #486 of 544
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Re: Semantics [gfr1]
by corvette
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Jul 26, 2009 (6:38 am)
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Replying to: gfr1 (Jul 22, 2009 7:52 pm)
My recollection is that the Volt does have regenerative braking abilities, and that regen would work even if the battery were low. Also, I believe there is an electrically operated heating system. Of course, that will reduce the electric-only range, but would not require that the engine run in order to generate heat.
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- #487 of 544
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Re: Semantics [corvette]
by pf_flyer HOST
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Jul 26, 2009 (6:58 am)
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Replying to: corvette (Jul 26, 2009 6:38 am)
Also, I believe there is an electrically operated heating system. Of course, that will reduce the electric-only range, but would not require that the engine run in order to generate heat.
So are we assuming that the "40 mile battery-only" operational range doesn't take into account the power needed for heat and/or AC?
It would be kind of silly to report an "ideal operating conditions" range, wouldn't it? I wonder how terrain and traffic is going to affect the stated range.
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- #488 of 544
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Re: Semantics [pf_flyer]
by snakeweasel
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Jul 26, 2009 (7:05 am)
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Jul 26, 2009 6:58 am)
Isn't that an issue with any electric vehicle, and to a lesser extent a gas powered vehicle?
Anyway it is a moot point as you do have the ICE backup to generate any electricity after the battery is depleted.
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- #489 of 544
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Re: Semantics [snakeweasel]
by pf_flyer HOST
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Jul 26, 2009 (7:12 am)
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jul 26, 2009 7:05 am)
Certainly operating the AC affects mileage on an ICE car. Heating your car in the winter is simply taking advantage of a by-product of internal combustion. I imagine that both heating and AC will have comparable effects on the battery-only range of the Volt before the ICE starts up to start "running the generator".
Hardly moot as the range of battery only operation is supposed to be the big draw of the Volt. "Drive 40 miles or less? Don't use ANY gas." Isn't that the line of thought or am I mistaken?
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- #490 of 544
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Re: Semantics [pf_flyer]
by dmathews3
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Jul 26, 2009 (9:21 am)
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Jul 26, 2009 7:12 am)
When I use my table saw the motor on it if cutting thick wood heats up quite a bit. I bet the electric motor no the Volt running all the time puts out quite a bit of heat. I wonder if they figured out a way to capture it for the heating system? Also don't the L-ion batteries also produce heat? Maybe that is 2nd generation thinking.
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- #491 of 544
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Cloaking
by gorpzorp
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Aug 01, 2009 (12:46 pm)
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GM seems to be dodging the AC effecting range question.
Nick explains that the test cycles include “a standard set of accessory loads,” but that “air conditioning is not included.” He says the testing “also assumes a 60 F to 65 F degree
I would think it would be very easy to figure it in. Makes me think it might be a pretty good drain.
http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/24/the-chevy-volts-electric-range-is-40-miles-in-both- -highway-and-city-driving/
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- #492 of 544
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Re: Cloaking [gorpzorp]
by pf_flyer HOST
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Aug 01, 2009 (5:00 pm)
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Replying to: gorpzorp (Aug 01, 2009 12:46 pm)
Just look at how much variance there is in mileage of cars of all kinds because of how people drive and the terrain and road conditions they face.
It's one thing to try and report numbers based on "average" conditions. It's a little different when you give numbers "under ideal conditions"
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