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Will the Chevy Volt Succeed?

545 messages,  Last post on Dec 02, 2009 at 12:57 PM

You are in the Chevrolet Volt Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer

What is this discussion about? Chevrolet Volt, Automotive News, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, Truck, Sedan, SUV


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#482 of 545
Re: There's the other point [pf_flyer] by larsb
Jul 22, 2009 (1:14 pm)
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Jul 22, 2009 12:54 pm)

Every estimate I see says about 8 kwh to recharge the battery.
 
That's about 80 cents for most people.
 
For commuters like myself who drive about 22 miles a day round-trip, and maybe 100 miles on a weekend, the electric cost would be about $25 a month, and the gasoline costs might be $40 a month, for a total of about $65 monthly
 
That's not TOO much different than what I pay for gasoline per month for my Camry hybrid, from Dec-Jun this year was about $47 a month.
 
Would I trade for a much higher car payment just to save $18 a month? Not likely.
 
The economics don't look to be there for people already driving a mid-size fuel-efficient car.
 
And the comment about how electricity will go up because of EVs hitting the market? PSHAW !!!
 
All that charging ( or most of it ) will occur at night when the grid is flowing and unchallenged.
 
And how many EVs will sell per year? 60,000? 80,000? 100,000? Not the Volt, not at $40K.
 
If would take a LOT of years, a LOT of car sales, and a LOT of progress before the EVs made a dent in the grid to the point that the utility companies could claim higher demand and raise prices merely because of EVs.
#483 of 545
Re: There's the other point [larsb] by dmathews3
Jul 22, 2009 (1:42 pm)
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Replying to: larsb (Jul 22, 2009 1:14 pm)

I don't think we will ever see enough electric cars to change the off peak times to peak before we ever get that many cars we will have something else like hydrogen fuel cells.
#484 of 545
Re: Semantics [buyamerican2] by gfr1
Jul 22, 2009 (7:52 pm)
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Replying to: buyamerican2 (Jul 22, 2009 10:06 am)

I disagree! Lomotives & very large trucks, in the sense of small vehicles, aren't efficient. No batteries for energy storage exists, so where's the comparison? Locomotives need lots of weight. That's not energy efficiency. The Prius' efficiency is largely due to the battery helping the ICE during acelleration and climbing grades. Therefore it can have a smaller, more efficient, engine and one that doesn't require low rpm torque due to the battery assist. Going down the other side of a hill, or long grade, the Prius regenerates the battery for further use whereas the Volt wastes that excess energy, once the propulsion battery is low and off-line. Then think about the cold country, such as Fargo, Duluth, etc. What is going to heat the cabin, defrost the front and rear windows, keep the catalytic warm, and such? Where's the 40 mile EV only range potential now? In such a scenario, maybe 5 miles, or 0, if the ICE provides the heat? And if that is the case, it appears that the operating ICE wouldn't even be able to use the excess power to charge the battery! There's a lot of detail that hasn't yet been disclosed, but it seems a little disconcerning to me. GR
#485 of 545
Re: Should GM take note? [larsb] by michael2003
Jul 26, 2009 (3:55 am)
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Replying to: larsb (Jul 21, 2009 10:32 am)

Nice post, and thanks. It does a very good job of explaining what I understand is the current motive plan.
#486 of 545
Re: Semantics [gfr1] by corvette
Jul 26, 2009 (6:38 am)
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Replying to: gfr1 (Jul 22, 2009 7:52 pm)

My recollection is that the Volt does have regenerative braking abilities, and that regen would work even if the battery were low. Also, I believe there is an electrically operated heating system. Of course, that will reduce the electric-only range, but would not require that the engine run in order to generate heat.
#487 of 545
Re: Semantics [corvette] by pf_flyer HOST
Jul 26, 2009 (6:58 am)
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Replying to: corvette (Jul 26, 2009 6:38 am)

Also, I believe there is an electrically operated heating system. Of course, that will reduce the electric-only range, but would not require that the engine run in order to generate heat.
 
So are we assuming that the "40 mile battery-only" operational range doesn't take into account the power needed for heat and/or AC?
 
It would be kind of silly to report an "ideal operating conditions" range, wouldn't it? I wonder how terrain and traffic is going to affect the stated range.
#488 of 545
Re: Semantics [pf_flyer] by snakeweasel
Jul 26, 2009 (7:05 am)
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Jul 26, 2009 6:58 am)

Isn't that an issue with any electric vehicle, and to a lesser extent a gas powered vehicle?
 
Anyway it is a moot point as you do have the ICE backup to generate any electricity after the battery is depleted.
#489 of 545
Re: Semantics [snakeweasel] by pf_flyer HOST
Jul 26, 2009 (7:12 am)
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jul 26, 2009 7:05 am)

Certainly operating the AC affects mileage on an ICE car. Heating your car in the winter is simply taking advantage of a by-product of internal combustion. I imagine that both heating and AC will have comparable effects on the battery-only range of the Volt before the ICE starts up to start "running the generator".
 
Hardly moot as the range of battery only operation is supposed to be the big draw of the Volt. "Drive 40 miles or less? Don't use ANY gas." Isn't that the line of thought or am I mistaken?
#490 of 545
Re: Semantics [pf_flyer] by dmathews3
Jul 26, 2009 (9:21 am)
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Jul 26, 2009 7:12 am)

When I use my table saw the motor on it if cutting thick wood heats up quite a bit. I bet the electric motor no the Volt running all the time puts out quite a bit of heat. I wonder if they figured out a way to capture it for the heating system? Also don't the L-ion batteries also produce heat? Maybe that is 2nd generation thinking.
#491 of 545
Cloaking by gorpzorp
Aug 01, 2009 (12:46 pm)
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GM seems to be dodging the AC effecting range question.
 
Nick explains that the test cycles include “a standard set of accessory loads,” but that “air conditioning is not included.” He says the testing “also assumes a 60 F to 65 F degree
 
I would think it would be very easy to figure it in. Makes me think it might be a pretty good drain.
 
http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/24/the-chevy-volts-electric-range-is-40-miles-in-both- -highway-and-city-driving/

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