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Hybrid Vehicles Chevrolet Volt Will the Chevy Volt Succeed?
544 messages, Last post on Oct 28, 2009 at 1:11 PM
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"So according to this logic, GM may have a $27K Volt in 2010, but it will really be 2015 before they have a competitive product?" If you mean "price competitive" then yes... but that doesn't mean the Volt can't sell in decent numbers. There are quite a few near-lux cars in the $30 - $40K range that sell between 50 and 100K units. IMO, there are a lot of people who will pay to show their greenness by saying they use no gas. It's just another way to impress the neighbors. "I agree completely. I read some of the most inane comments on Inside Line." Hence, why the Volt had to be put out there so early... the world is full of people who need to be educated, like so many horseless carriage owners at the turn of the last century. |
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The Senate is currently working on a proposal that would give up to a $7,500 tax credit for buyers of plug-in vehicles like the Volt. I'm personally not a big fan of tax credits but if they must exist then at least they should make some sense. I believe the goal is to reduce fuel consumption so any tax credit should be based upon fuel economy, not the vehicle type. If there are non-hybrids, non plug-ins that can attain the same or better fuel efficiency they are just as deserving of a tax credit. With that said the problem becomes how to assign a fuel efficiency rating to a vehicle like the Volt? I don't think that should be too difficult. First determine what the mpg of the Volt will be once the ICE generator has kicked in. GM is stating this will be around 50 mpg. Then estimate what percentage of the average drivers annual mileage will take place under these conditions. Let's say 40%. So for every 10,000 miles driven 4,000 will have involved the ICE burning gas to charge the batteries. At 50 mpg that's 80 gallons for every 10,000 miles driven or 125 mpg. That should qualify for any tax credit based upon mpg.
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Replying to: tpe (Sep 24, 2008 11:31 am) That's fine, but there needs to be an electric range number (in miles) for plug-ins. My understanding of the just-passed House tax credit is it starts at $3,000 for 5kWh + $150 for flex fuel capability + $250 for every kWh of battery capacity over 5kWh (up to a maximum of $3,000). A plug-in Prius would probably get nothing, while a Volt would get all $6,150. I think the 1st 250K vehicles fully qualify and it gradually declines after that. If the Senate gives more the bills will need to be reconciled. The object here apparently is not to promote high mpg, but no gas usage at all.
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Replying to: eaton53 (Sep 24, 2008 1:49 pm) Well the objective should be to use our tax dollars to promote a maximum displacement of gas usage. Encouraging people to buy vehicles that use no gas does not necessarily accomplish this if the vehicle sees reduced service due to it's limitations. |
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Replying to: eaton53 (Sep 24, 2008 3:06 am) This would require a transmission similar to the HSD. I have not heard that the Volt will have regen braking. From what I have read the transmission is pure electric, without the reverse-generator function of the HSD that puts charge back in the batteries. |
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Replying to: tpe (Sep 24, 2008 5:28 am) That is what GM said; "a gasoline/E85-powered engine generator seamlessly provides electricity to power the Volt's electric drive unit..." Energy does not go to the battery; it simply stays at whatever SOC it has when "depleted". I read that statement to mean that the ICE powers the electric motors, no batteries involved. I suspect that the Volt does not have ANY on-board capability to recharge the batteries, including regen braking. |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Sep 24, 2008 3:47 pm) The system seems the same as the production systems found now: ” When the brake pedal is applied (foot comes off accelerator pedal) the Electric Traction motor switches to a “Generator”. http://gm-volt.com/2007/02/28/volt-has-regenerative-braking/ |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Sep 24, 2008 3:47 pm) It makes sense if you consider energy efficiency and energy loss on conversion from one point to another. For example, if mechanical energy converted to electrical energy is optimistically 90% efficiency (ICE to generator), and the electrical energy converted back to mechanical energy at the axle at 90% efficiency (via electric motor), the resulting transmission efficiency from ICE to the wheel of volt would be about 81%. A regular automatic transmission can do better than that. But, of course, in an automatic transmission, the engine does not shut off when the car is stationary. Now if the electricity generated passes by the battery before it is released to the electric motor, there is additional efficiency loss due to energy conversion from electrical energy to chemical energy and back. And that is by a factor of roughly 50-60%. If the generator-motor would have 81% transmission efficiency, the generator-battery-motor would have 48% transmission efficiency. That is actually a horrible figure. However, the volt is designed to be powered by batteries that is primarily charged by grid electricity and not by the ICE and that is where it make it's economic rationale. I would guess that driving the volt with the ICE and with empty battery would be a terrible waste of fuel especially on the highway. Much worse than a regular car. |
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Replying to: peralta (Sep 24, 2008 7:26 pm) |
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Replying to: peralta (Sep 24, 2008 7:26 pm) How Does It Work? The Chevy Volt will use a new powertrain that GM is referring to as the "E-Flex" system. It uses electricity to move the car at all times, and uses an engine as a generator to repenish its batteries. To charge it, owners will plug it into a standard household electrical outlet. When they drive the car, it will use only its electric motor, no matter what speed it is driven, until its battery has less than 30 percent of a full charge remaining. At that point, a small four-cylinder engine will turn on. That engine will not directly send power to the wheels -- instead, it will act as a generator, recharging the batteries. According to GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz, the Volt will use its GPS system to determine how long to run that engine. "The car will know how far you are from home," Lutz told reporters in September, "and it will only run the gas engine long enough to give you enough charge to get you home where you can actually plug it into the wall outlet. So the car will be smart enough to know where its home base is." GM engineers estimate that the average driver will be able to travel 40 miles before the gasoline engine even ignites. But the range of the Volt under battery power alone will change based on how much weight it is carrying, how fast it is traveling, and other factors. The 40-mile figure is significant, however, because most Americans drive less than 40 miles per day. For many owners, the Volt would function as an electric car virtually all the time, using gasoline only when they took longer trips than they take on a typical day http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2010-Chevrolet-Volt/ |
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