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Will the Chevy Volt Succeed?

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#4 of 544 Re: Will the Chevy Volt Succeed? [pf_flyer] by toyolla2 Sep 15, 2007 (7:24 pm)
Replying to: pf_flyer (Sep 15, 2007 3:35 am) Well, it seems the breakthrough on the battery system will be liquid cooling - reading from your new Green Car Advisor section. This will hold the overheat problem at bay - at a price. Hey, but it will get product out the door.    It parallels the liquid cooling of the Prius inverters. I remember thinking that particular Toyota solution was a bit over the top, purely from industrial experience with much larger drives. Obviously they were able to meet the harsher conditions of the automobile; from a population of several hundred thousands, failures of their power modules appear to be minimal.    Regarding the VOLT, using an HV battery together with a three cylinder engine is hardly something I would do if low cost were the aim, but this vehicle will provide a respectable entry into the hybrid arena.   Neither power hybrids nor two seaters proved to be volume sellers fior Honda. But the Insight was not promoted. I don't know how universal this was but I have never seen one either on the road or at the dealership. What did they expect ?   Actually even the Prius was not a fixture in the showroon either until 2003 and then only in the main dealership here.   Honda's system needed three things to be successful. Its introduction would have gone better with the following: 1. A well insulated battery pack. 2. A thermal warming blanket. 3. A trickle charger for the HV battery.   The latter two to have a convenient single plug-in if the car is to be left for an extended period. Lack of those items, IMO, bought them a heap of dissatisfied customers in the snow belt. Edmunds boards fill with complaints come November. That problem not going away, as those vehicles grow older I think we will be hearing more.   The VOLT'S system is also a scalable system like the Toyota HSD, and offers benefits as I've been propounding in the Advanced Hybrid thread elsewhere. I am sure that with this type of electrical transmission this vehicle is going to generate interest. It was said that the Prius was an enigma in that though its operation was straightforward its working was complex. The Volt on the surface looks simpler for troubleshooting you can seperate the genset from the induction motor transaxle so a mechanic's learning curve will be shorter.   One other thing, $30k is a bit high, I would hope they bring out a stripper version with a 1.3Kwhr battery like the Prius so that the genset can power the traction motor mostly and still have all the advantages of the Prius with a lower price tag. The three cylinder might be replaced with that 900cc 105Hp turbocharged two cylinder small gasoline engine (SGE) that's been just been announced by Fiat for the Panda Aria.   This car will generate traffic in GM showrooms and they could use that right now. And let's hope GM dealers are up to the task and start promoting them. T2   Chevy VOLT 1 litre 3-cylinder turbocharged gasoline 1500-1800rpm max 3200rpm 12 gal fuel. 53kw generator. Traction Motor 160HP/236lbs-ft Battery 16kwhr 320-350v 140kw peak. max mechanical 120kw Cont electrical power 45kw, continuous mech power 40kw limited duration 120mph top speed
#5 of 544 Cooling not really a breakthrough by pf_flyer HOST Sep 16, 2007 (3:42 am)
The batteries were overheating, they needed to be cooled. That's treating a symptom, not curing the disease.   It's possible that there isn't going to be much of a "cure" I suppose. A breakthrough would be finding a way to transfer energy to and from the battery without generating any heat (or significantly less heat), something like that.   I also agree the $30,000 price tag is too high. And if the goal of the Volt is to generate traffic in GM showrooms because they need that right now, then they're doing it for the wrong reason. Replies to this message: gagrice (Sep 16, 2007 5:33 am) tpe (Sep 17, 2007 5:50 pm)
#6 of 544 Re: Cooling not really a breakthrough [pf_flyer] by gagrice Sep 16, 2007 (5:33 am)
Replying to: pf_flyer (Sep 16, 2007 3:42 am) Many people paid $30k plus for the Prius II when it was in short supply. So I think they can get the money from those that have more than they need. I agree that cooling the batteries with water is just another complex system added to an overly complex vehicle. KISS is still my motto. I think it is all part of the push by industry to generate throwaway products. Hybrids are a big step in that direction. Most electronics are throwaway now. GM in hindsight sees the success that Toyota has with hybrids and want to try and capture some of that fake green color.
#7 of 544 Will it succeed?...................... by daysailer Sep 17, 2007 (8:55 am)
It is much too early to predict, since it is just a concept under development that won't be available until (at least)2010. The available info suggests that it at least is close to the ballpark, if not in it. $30K does seem a bit of a reach for a vehicle as described, but it's not otherworldly. I applaud GM for one of their rare forays into innovation, however, given their history, I wouldn't buy one 'til their reliability was proven.
#8 of 544 I certainly HOPE it succeeds by larsb Sep 17, 2007 (9:13 am)
Here's one vote hoping the Volt is a smashing success, with hundreds of buyers on waiting lists at every GM dealer in the country.   (Not for the sake of GM, but for the sake of the environment.)
#9 of 544 Re: Cooling not really a breakthrough [pf_flyer] by tpe Sep 17, 2007 (5:50 pm)
Replying to: pf_flyer (Sep 16, 2007 3:42 am) The batteries were overheating, they needed to be cooled. That's treating a symptom, not curing the disease.   ICE's would overheat if it wasn't for radiators, fans, and oil. Do you consider that to be treating a symptom? It would be nice if batteries generated less heat because this represents wasted energy, which is why ICE's are so inherently inefficient.   I agree that $30k is a little steep. However if the driver can expect to save $1k/year in gasoline he might start seeing it as comparable to a $25k vehicle. If states and/or the feds offer $3k tax credits, which is likely, then it really is getting into the affordable range.
#10 of 544 It's too early to tell by nedzel Sep 24, 2007 (9:21 am)
I sure hope that the Volt succeeds. The big question mark is the battery pack: how much will it cost, how long will it last, and what range will it provide in Minnesota during the winter, with the defroster running and the battery pack cold-soaked?
#11 of 544 Way Too Early by 1stpik Nov 21, 2007 (11:09 am)
Since the words "General Motors" and "success" don't seem to go together anymore, I have to make this point: the Volt can only "succeed" if the GM actually MAKES the car. Right now, it's all hype.   Telling everyone in 2007 that you'll build a revolutionary car by 2010 means nothing. The Big Three have been playing this game since the 1950s. We're all hip to the scam now.   The Volt project only makes me wonder how advanced electric propulsion technology would ALREADY be if GM had not scrapped the EV-1 project a decade ago. The people who "killed the electric car" are now telling us they're going to build an even better one ..... in a few years.   Yeah, right.   I'll believe it when I see it.   Replies to this message: tpe (Nov 21, 2007 5:05 pm) gagrice (Nov 21, 2007 6:30 pm)
#12 of 544 Alternate Route on the Volt by pf_flyer HOST Nov 21, 2007 (11:29 am)
Charging Up   Still a big hurdle or two if Chevy is going to get the Volt to market by 2010
#13 of 544 Re: Way Too Early [1stpik] by tpe Nov 21, 2007 (5:05 pm)
Replying to: 1stpik (Nov 21, 2007 11:09 am) You can't compare GM's efforts regarding the Chevy Volt to their EV1. In the case of the EV1 they were mandated by CARB to produce this vehicle and they did so, kicking and screaming. The Chevy Volt is internally motivated and GM has promoted it to the extent that to not deliver would represent a major "black eye". I believe we will see the Chevy Volt. Whether or not GM meets their 2010 timeline will be dependent on battery technology, not their resolve. I believe that GM has seen the light and they realize the EV is the future. I think they also realize this is a chance to leapfrog Toyota and they aren't going to pass it by. I wish them success. Replies to this message: gagrice (Nov 21, 2007 6:30 pm)

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