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Hybrid Vehicles Chevrolet Volt Will the Chevy Volt Succeed?
545 messages, Last post on Dec 02, 2009 at 12:57 PM
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 24, 2007 5:05 pm) When the automobile was first invented it was definitely a luxury item that only the most fortunate could afford. So would that have been a legitimate reason for not developing automobiles? Regardless the same argument can be made against any product or service that is too expensive for poor people to afford. That's the nature of capitalism. Before there were automobiles there were probably no gas stations. Amazingly when there became a need for gas stations they started popping up. I'm sure it's a lot cheaper to install charging stations than a gas station. As far as limited utility I'm not sure I follow you. The Chevy Volt can be driven without ever being plugged in and, according to GM, you will still be getting 50 mpg because the electricity will be generated by a very efficient 1.0 Liter, 3 cylinder engine that will always operate at its peak efficiency. Not having access to an outlet will prevent you from taking advantage of it's plug-in capability but you will still have a series hybrid that get's exceptional mileage.
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Replying to: 1stpik (Nov 26, 2007 5:05 am) I've read a lot of GM's press releases regarding the Chevy Volt. I've yet to see one that "promises" anything in regards to production dates and price. They've simply set targets, which I believe they are sincere in trying to make. If the battery technology is not there by 2010 that is somewhat outside of their control. I do believe that the rest of the vehicle will be ready by that date. What do you mean by useful range? What would be GM's motive for promoting this vehicle if they have no intention of producing it?
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Replying to: tpe (Nov 26, 2007 10:11 am) The utility I was speaking about is that it's of no use to buy a plug-in from any maker unless you can plug it in somewhere. For a huge part of the population this is not an option. What vehicle now do you know that can't be purchased because the power is not available? Yes the Volt has the advantage that it never needs to be plugged in ( purpose then? ) because it can be driven just as a 1.0L gasser or diesel that's powering an electric motor set. I wouldn't be sure about getting exceptional mileage with the vehicle unless it's using it's plugin capability. If it's being used as a series hybrid and it's running on the ICE all the time inorder to charge the battery in order to drive the e-motors then it's no different than anyother ICE on the road, except that it's also pushing the battery pack without any benefit from it. The PHEVs are a key part of the future but I'm guessing that it will be 5+ yrs before there's a decent infrastructure for plugin stations ( LT parking facilities, Hotels, etc ).
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Replying to: tpe (Nov 26, 2007 10:24 am) ..which technology? A123 or LG and their partner? ..which company is a better fit for GM with the best prospects for large volume production and longterm suvivability and reliability? ..how to market this innovation? Who's actually going to buy it? ..how to warrant the battery/hybrid system? ..sell or lease the battery pack? .. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 26, 2007 1:13 pm) And for a huge part of the population it is an option. Regardless, I've read GM's plan is to sell 30,000 units per year initially. That' about 2/10ths of 1 percent of all vehicle sales. Whether or not this vehicle has a large market is an issue that won't be relevant for some time. It will be like most new products. At first you'll have the early adopters that will pave the way for these vehicles becoming more mainstream. If it's being used as a series hybrid and it's running on the ICE all the time inorder to charge the battery in order to drive the e-motors then it's no different than anyother ICE on the road The ICE will not be running all the time. It will only kick in whenever the battery falls below a certain level of charge and as soon as this level is brought back up the engine will shut off. I'd guess that the only situation where it might be running all the time would be if you were travelling 80 mph down the highway. This series hybrid setup still has merit even if you never plug it in. I'm sure the electric motors will have a higher power rating than the ICE charging it so you can have a car with considerable power and torque with the high mpg that a small ICE running part of the time can deliver.
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Replying to: tpe (Nov 26, 2007 2:38 pm) Oh, like the Prius, which can go about 2 miles or so on battery only, even if kept below 40 MPH? Batteries can only sustain so much discharge. In practice, I think that a series hybrid with current battery technology may not make as much sense as the HSD.
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Replying to: tpe (Nov 26, 2007 2:38 pm)
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 26, 2007 3:08 pm) You've stated previously that that people living in urban areas that have to park on the street wouldn't be able to take advantage of a PHEV. Let's say I agree. Why would this person after hearing about PHEVs ever walk into a dealership thinking that he could take full advantage of this type of vehicle? Your comment implies that the salesman will have to inform this person that he has no place to plug it in as if the customer doesn't already know this. It's an implausible scenario and even if this customer was so dense as to not realize he didn't have a garage I don't believe car salesmen put a lot of effort into talking customers out of buying vehicles. Do you think that when people buy hybrids the salesmen spend much time in pointing out how many years it will take to recover the premium through gas savings? If I was a car salesman and a customer was reluctant to buy a PHEV because he didn't have a home outlet to recharge from I'd point out that as these vehicles become more commonplace there will certainly be charging stations installed on streets and in parking lots. It was happening in CA during the few years of the EV1. In the meantime he'd be driving a car that got 50 mpg. Now If I was in this car buyers position a PHEV would still have some appeal.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 26, 2007 2:58 pm) You're correct in saying that a series hybrid does not offer the same efficiency as the HSD primarily because of an additional conversion loss. However a series hybrid does offer the advantage of being simpler, which could theoretically make it cheaper to manufacture. Also as battery technology improved you could upgrade your battery pack to give it more pure EV range and potentially pull the ICE out altogether since it was never used for propulsion to begin with. You can't separate the drives in an HSD in fact the electric motors don't have enough power to be the sole source of propulsion for most driving circumstances. And a series hybrid definitely has an advantage over the ICE because an ICE does not allow for recapturing energy through regenerative braking. I don't think you can regenerate gasoline. |
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Replying to: tpe (Nov 27, 2007 5:45 am) Not really implausible simply because there are people in this society that are looking for every chance to pick a fight or file a lawsuit. 'Why should only the privileged few living in certain privileged areas be afforded the latest and most efficient technology to save money?' "So {fill in manufacturer name] you specifically designed this vehicle knowing that only those living in certain areas having access to plugin capabilities would be able to buy it - and power it up - but those living in other areas would not?" Now if the manufacturers at least make an honest effort to get plugin capabilities made available all across the country in all sections and to all social strata then at least they will be seen as attempting to develop the infrastructure to assist the whole population. Otherwise there will be complaints, lawsuits and demonstrations about being forced to ride in the back of the bus ( technologically speaking ). It a huge marketing issue to address and overcome. The whole purpose of the plugin concept is to be able to charge it during offpeak hours ( generally at night as the owner sleeps ). Charging during the day is adding additional load at peak usage time which is counterproductive. It may even be banned. For example plugin capabilities are only activated from 8PM onward. This is another marketing issue to address with the local power companies. |
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